FlexFuel (E85) system support?

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2009 (US, UK, Asia) S2000
Jun43
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by Jun43 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:13 pm

andyroosim wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:32 pm
Hondata wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:10 pm
Flex fuel for the S2000 is currently in testing.
Great news! Are you able to say if this will be a software or hardware upgrade?
Software but you need the flex fuel hardware too

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:01 am

Great news for all!

Thank you Doug & team @ Hondata!

https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/e ... tuning.htm

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:19 am

February 2018 marks 4 years on this thread. Quality work takes time.

Two things I love about this update:

1.) Addition of the new table: ethanol ignition multiplier (did not see that coming, was expecting a static 6x2 table like e% fuel comp)
2.) Test results and recommended settings from real-world ethanol analyzers. Thank you for this.

Great work Hondata team.

Mike

andyroosim
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:31 pm

A visual gauge is optional correct? Wiring in the e85 content sensor (like a continental) directly into the ecu-ect2 port should be enough for flex support and monitoring e-content should be capable on the flashpro software correct?

Jun43
Posts: 251
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by Jun43 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:37 pm

andyroosim wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:31 pm
A visual gauge is optional correct? Wiring in the e85 content sensor (like a continental) directly into the ecu-ect2 port should be enough for flex support and monitoring e-content should be capable on the flashpro software correct?
you will need a converter to turn the digital signal into analog 0-5V

The kits that was recommended on the 10th gen civic was

Innovate Motorsports 3904 MTX-D $210 ( http://a.co/bruW8N8 )
Zeitronix ECA-2 $299 ( http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm )

You can use whatever as long it outputs 0-5v to the ECT2

andyroosim
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:16 pm

Sorry im terrible with electronics. So the gauge is absolutely need to convert the signal to analog?
So is it like this:
E85 sensor -> gauge -> ecu ect2

Jun43
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by Jun43 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:57 pm

andyroosim wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:16 pm
Sorry im terrible with electronics. So the gauge is absolutely need to convert the signal to analog?
So is it like this:
E85 sensor -> gauge -> ecu ect2
Some of the kits does have a gauge and some don't

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:06 am

I have a friend that makes digital to analog converters for this. No gauge needed, or he does sell an add-on gauge. Not sure if it's allowed to solicit sales here however? It's on a BMW forum, ⚠️

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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by Hondata » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:37 am

There's no problem posting a link to a converter.

The sensors are all mode by Continental (and often re-branded). They output a square wave with a frequency that varies by ethanol content (50Hz = 0% - 150Hz = 100%). A digital circuit can convert to an analog voltage (or you could use an analog circuit if you wanted to).
Hondata

andyroosim
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:15 pm

Anyone have a diagram of the ecu showing where the ect2 pin site is?
Just ordered all my parts, gonna try to wire this up and tune for flex here in the next few weeks. Has anyone tuned for flex on fp here yet?

jun1or
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:26 am

jun1or wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:06 am
I have a friend that makes digital to analog converters for this. No gauge needed, or he does sell an add-on gauge. Not sure if it's allowed to solicit sales here however? It's on a BMW forum, ⚠️
PM for details.

Disclaimer: aside from 20 year friends, I have no financial affiliation to my friend Scott, just helping people out here. Guess he's shipped 3 so far for you guys?

Mike (JR)

andyroosim
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:01 am

Hey guys my tuner attempted to tune my car for flex this past weekend and this is what we found. Not to mention, this was his first time tuning flashpro's flex tables.

Setup: continental flex fuel sensor, jun1or's friend's signal converter, wired into ect2 port on the ecu.

We set up the signal converter in the software to have 0v read 0% and 5v read 100% ethanol content.

We tuned on 91 pump first, then tuned e85. First issue was that oddly the sensor read 45% e for pump gas and 55% e for e85. Seemed rather high for pump gas and low for e85. Not sure if this is normal, or due to the sensor, or due to the 0-5v settings.

The 91 pump tune was done at wastegate pressure (~7psi). Second issue was that later we realized when attempting to tune e85, there was no way to increase boost with increasing e85 content. So essentially the psi tuned on 91 pump gas is the psi youre stuck with on e85. Where as aem has two separate tables for pump gas vs e85 and ability to blend the two maps (af, ign, boost, etc).

We ended up just having a separate 91 and e85 map at the end of the day.

Still needs more features to be added to the software by hondata to run flex fuel as intended.

jun1or
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:09 am

Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by jun1or » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:06 am

andyroosim wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:01 am
Hey guys my tuner attempted to tune my car for flex this past weekend and this is what we found. Not to mention, this was his first time tuning flashpro's flex tables.

Setup: continental flex fuel sensor, jun1or's friend's signal converter, wired into ect2 port on the ecu.

We set up the signal converter in the software to have 0v read 0% and 5v read 100% ethanol content.

We tuned on 91 pump first, then tuned e85. First issue was that oddly the sensor read 45% e for pump gas and 55% e for e85. Seemed rather high for pump gas and low for e85. Not sure if this is normal, or due to the sensor, or due to the 0-5v settings.

The 91 pump tune was done at wastegate pressure (~7psi). Second issue was that later we realized when attempting to tune e85, there was no way to increase boost with increasing e85 content. So essentially the psi tuned on 91 pump gas is the psi youre stuck with on e85. Where as aem has two separate tables for pump gas vs e85 and ability to blend the two maps (af, ign, boost, etc).

We ended up just having a separate 91 and e85 map at the end of the day.

Still needs more features to be added to the software by hondata to run flex fuel as intended.
Hi Andy,

Any progress in testing?

Curious to know why 0% eth read 45% and ~e85 read ~55%. Were you able to tune the ethanol percentage (2v2) table properly?

As far as boost control tables x ethanol content, that does not appear to be supported yet, but should be a welcomed change.

Mike

andyroosim
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Re: FlexFuel (E85) system support?

Post by andyroosim » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:39 pm

Hi Mike,

Sorry for the late reply, I haven't been on the hondata forums for a while. I've just been driving on 100% e85 lol. My tuner convinced me its not worth the flex tune since there is no way to adjust the boost levels with increasing ethanol content. Although even at a fixed boost level, it would be nice to have in case I run out of fuel. So yea, I have all the components to run a flex tune but either my tuner is lazy or simply doesnt want to tune for it.

So I have two maps, one for e85 with max psi of 20 and one for 91 with max psi of 13psi.

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