Part throttle knock %

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2011 Americas Civic Si
Z1 Performance
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Part throttle knock %

Post by Z1 Performance » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:06 pm

Here is a screenshot from a part-throttle datalog. Knock % seems is out of the "normal" range for part throttle as I recall. I will email the datalogs and calibrations...

Mods are K&N SRI and UR Pulleys.

Thanks for your support and assistance.

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Post by Spunkster » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:11 pm

Download the new beta version of software that has knock count instead of just a percentage. That should help you determine when it is really knocking.

http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9770

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Post by Z1 Performance » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:19 pm

Were the bugs worked out of the beta? I thought there was a potential issue with calibrations from the previous version and this new beta. I don't want to lose my custom tune...

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Post by Hondata » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:30 pm

There are no known issues with the Beta.
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Post by Z1 Performance » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:04 pm

Then I'll re-log and check for actual knock...

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Post by Z1 Performance » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:26 pm

Ok - I downloaded the new beta and re-logged. I'm getting significant knock % and knock retard (even during cruise) without any knock counts.

Do I have to re-flash the ECU with my old calibration from the previous version in order to see the knock count per cylinder with the new beta? I haven't flashed the ECU again since the previous version.

The sensors are a little small below bc of picture size, but there is no knock count at all, or by cylinder even with a very high knock % and significant timing retard. Please let me know if this is normal...seems the Honda knock system works differently than anything I've encountered in the past.

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Post by Hondata » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:36 am

Yes, you need to upload your calibration to the ECU with the new version.
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Post by Z1 Performance » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:51 pm

Ok - here are shots from the new log (cruise, and WOT).

Is this simply a matter of decreasing knock resistance? Is a count of 4 "significant?" Any rhyme or reason why it's cylinder 2 only? I'm trying to learn as this is the first Honda engine management I have experience with.

I have my calibrations and full logs, should you like to look at them and make any changes to the calibration. Let me know and I'll email them over.

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Post by Hondata » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:05 am

Changing the knock sensitivity will only change the knock retard, and not change the detection of knock.

For a NA car any knock at all is unusual, and should be tuned out. Go through the datalog and find the position when the knock count increases. Look for pattern (does it always increase at the same rpm?). Look up the ignition tables at the same rpm, load and cam angle where you get knock, and remove some ignition timing in that area. 1 or 2 degrees should fix it.
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Post by Z1 Performance » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:17 am

Edit.

Ok - confusion continues. I re-logged today. I did pull out 2 degrees from cam angles ), 15 and 30, from about 1750-3000rpm Map -5.5psi to -20.0 psi. From a few separate logs, this is where knock seemed to start in part throttle.

I made a couple of full throttle logs from about 3000rpm up that were clean.

I will upload tomorrow, re-log and check.

Here is the confusing part...in one log, I was getting knock at IDLE. I assume this is probably from a tiny noise/vibration from my Engine Torque Damper.

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Finally, it's strange that the Honda knock sensor HOLDS the knock value once an incident occurs rather than tracking in real time continuously.

Help :)

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Post by mugen959 » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:59 pm

i have the same problem cant seem to get rid of the knock count in the lower rpm range between 2000 - 4000. Did what hondata said is to pull 1 or 2 degrees and that didn't work for me. I would like to know why it is knocking because i can hear pinging too, cant miss it. I think the timing is too aggressive for the maps they proved for NA cars. HONDATA needs to come out with more milder maps for NA cars period, time will tell, always will.

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Post by Hondata » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:01 am

Normally the cause of excessive knock (apart from discount fuel) is a SRI drawing hot air from under the hood.
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Post by Z1 Performance » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:26 am

Hondata wrote:Normally the cause of excessive knock (apart from discount fuel) is a SRI drawing hot air from under the hood.
If this is un-avoidable with an SRI in hot weather, should this be an area of concern? Should these knock counts be worrisome?

Also, Does the stock ECU exhibit the same symptoms with an SRI? I haven't yet flashed back to stock to log and check.

Would an AFM-calibration adjust better than a MAP calibration in this regard?

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Post by mugen959 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:32 am

can we use the ecu's knock retard abilities to control ignition when we have knock count in certain area ??? and can the knock sen. tables be turned up in those areas of knock count to control that ??? HONDATA do you have an answer for me ???

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Post by Hondata » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:34 am

If this is un-avoidable with an SRI in hot weather, should this be an area of concern? Should these knock counts be worrisome?
- Retard the ignition until you get no knock. You should not get any more than a couple of knock counts every minute or so of driving.

- Does the stock ECU exhibit the same symptoms with an SRI?
Probably not, as it has less ignition advance.

- Would an AFM-calibration adjust better than a MAP calibration in this regard?
Both the AFM and MAP calibrations should show require the same amount of ignition advance.

- can we use the ecu's knock retard abilities to control ignition when we have knock count in certain area
You need to reduce ignition advance where you get knock. The ECU does not directly retard the ignition with knock.
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