Yeah that last WOT pull was good. Anything near 2500-3000 on the hit and over 8000 up top is fine, we're just trying to get data down low for knock and low end fueling, then as we sweep we're trying to get general fuel and ignition data. Just like you would do on a dyno. I mean you could start the pull lower than 2500 if you wanted, but I try to keep things realistic for a street pull while keeping you guys and everyone on the road safe. I don't want anyone getting hurt or anything like that.
Yeah the longer datalogs are full. You guys have the burden of time, so when I can save you some I try. But feel free to continue as you're doing. We don't use the 40* cam for much on part throttle, it's mostly WOT we would use it. But yeah, more data is always better as you know in your field.
Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Cool. I was able to get a pretty good 3rd gear WOT pull tonight. Not sure if this changes anything but I did have my kids in the car. (We were on a safe road (: )
And cool. I figure I just turn on the datalogging when I drive the car. If the opportunity presents itself, I'll be able to do the WOT pull and have it logging. If not, at least there is a data on how I normally drive the car. And yes, definitely know how more data is always better ;)
Normal Driving: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... Q?e=YaOPVL
WOT: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... Q?e=GgWH3w
Thanks!
And cool. I figure I just turn on the datalogging when I drive the car. If the opportunity presents itself, I'll be able to do the WOT pull and have it logging. If not, at least there is a data on how I normally drive the car. And yes, definitely know how more data is always better ;)
Normal Driving: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... Q?e=YaOPVL
WOT: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... Q?e=GgWH3w
Thanks!
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Yeah it looks good. No problem, as long as you're safe it's all up to you. It's not like we're driving 1000hp cars here, haha. Just be safe.
We will now do one on the 40* cam with vtec at 4000. This will be the last one we lock cam angles, and we will blend out the cam angle map after this next datalog. So you're almost to the point of getting to see what the final product will feel like. Take this one for a spin when you can, main thing is the third gear WOT pull again.
We will now do one on the 40* cam with vtec at 4000. This will be the last one we lock cam angles, and we will blend out the cam angle map after this next datalog. So you're almost to the point of getting to see what the final product will feel like. Take this one for a spin when you can, main thing is the third gear WOT pull again.
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Awesome, thanks for the quick responses as well and glad its looking good!
Super excited to see what the final product will drive like! Thanks again!
Super excited to see what the final product will drive like! Thanks again!
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Hey there! Got the datalogs this morning. I really appreciate all the help! Any suggestions on mods, or maintenance or anything I can do to keep the engine as healthy as possible? Not looking to make power but I guess longevity and health? Car is starting to feel and drive really smooth btw, I'm excited!
Normal Driving: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... w?e=LbKFCr
WOT: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... A?e=EvMtbD
Normal Driving: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... w?e=LbKFCr
WOT: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... A?e=EvMtbD
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Did you happen to put gas in at any point in the tuning process? I'm just curious because of how sensitive your car got as far as knock on the 30* cam and 40* cam for part throttle. If you did get gas, do you know the date or which calibration you were on? Either way, I made adjustments for the knock. Just curious. Are you running 91 or 92 out there?
There really isn't anything special you can do from a maintenance stand point, just the usual oil changes on time and what not. Proactively though there really isn't much you can. They are very reliable cars. The only common issue I have come across is the primary o2 sensor failure. When they fail, the tend to read fine for part throttle but stop reading well under WOT. But yeah, keep up on the oil changes and you should be good to for quite a while. My old 8th gen I sold to a friend has probably 180k on it, and it's been tuned since 70k.
So overall the fueling is looking great. I'm just curious as to why it's so sensitive on those two cam angles, but we will see how it looks now that everything is blended. Granted most the knock was in one area while you were cruising on the highway, and I had the knock retard function off, I just want to make sure we address all the issues we can. So if you added gas somewhere in this process, that might be a culprit.
Take this one for a spin when you can. I've blended out the cam angle map now so the cam will rotate as we designed. See what you think, it should be pretty strong all over hopefully and pull strong throughout a pull. I'm leaving all the knock retard functions off while we dial in the ignition. Vtec seems to be happiest at 4600, but honestly we can go a little lower or higher if you want. The lower threshold is 4600 and the upper is 5400, if you're not familiar with what that means and how vtec is just let me know.
There really isn't anything special you can do from a maintenance stand point, just the usual oil changes on time and what not. Proactively though there really isn't much you can. They are very reliable cars. The only common issue I have come across is the primary o2 sensor failure. When they fail, the tend to read fine for part throttle but stop reading well under WOT. But yeah, keep up on the oil changes and you should be good to for quite a while. My old 8th gen I sold to a friend has probably 180k on it, and it's been tuned since 70k.
So overall the fueling is looking great. I'm just curious as to why it's so sensitive on those two cam angles, but we will see how it looks now that everything is blended. Granted most the knock was in one area while you were cruising on the highway, and I had the knock retard function off, I just want to make sure we address all the issues we can. So if you added gas somewhere in this process, that might be a culprit.
Take this one for a spin when you can. I've blended out the cam angle map now so the cam will rotate as we designed. See what you think, it should be pretty strong all over hopefully and pull strong throughout a pull. I'm leaving all the knock retard functions off while we dial in the ignition. Vtec seems to be happiest at 4600, but honestly we can go a little lower or higher if you want. The lower threshold is 4600 and the upper is 5400, if you're not familiar with what that means and how vtec is just let me know.
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Sorry, meant to say at the end, if you’re not familiar with “i-vtec”, let me know. Haha. Glad I reread that.
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Hey!
Yes, I was on E and had to fill up today before doing the runs.
I filled up gas this morning on the 6th revision. It was 92 and I didn't fill up at the same exact gas station as the last time I fueled up but it is the same company and gas. Just different location. Hope that didn't change anything.
Thanks for the tips on maintaining the car and the tip on the O2 sensor. It should throw a CEL if that O2 sensor goes out? And I change the oil probably more than I need to lol.
Let's keep the VTEC engagement at whatever you think the engine likes it at :) I am not super familiar with the lower and upper. What's that mean?
Should I still run this next revision?
Yes, I was on E and had to fill up today before doing the runs.
I filled up gas this morning on the 6th revision. It was 92 and I didn't fill up at the same exact gas station as the last time I fueled up but it is the same company and gas. Just different location. Hope that didn't change anything.
Thanks for the tips on maintaining the car and the tip on the O2 sensor. It should throw a CEL if that O2 sensor goes out? And I change the oil probably more than I need to lol.
Let's keep the VTEC engagement at whatever you think the engine likes it at :) I am not super familiar with the lower and upper. What's that mean?
Should I still run this next revision?
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Okay, interesting, we'll keep an eye on it. Maybe it's just really touchy in that area. Cylinder 2 is closest to the knock sensor and is known to be a little sensitive to sound because of that. But we'll watch it.
No the o2 sensor won't throw a code, that's the funny part of it. Now that we've tuned the car with a proper working sensor though it won't impact the tune if the sensor goes bad. When you go WOT, it uses the fuel tables we've tuned so that it doesn't rely on the 02 sensor reading. We basically use it to tune the car, but in WOT it will go by the tables we built. Whereas, in part throttle it uses the primary sensor to make fuel trims to keep the part throttle AFR in line. It's what they refer to as open loop operation and closed loop. What I recommend guys do is datalog every few months just for fun, say a drive to work or something and just look things over or shoot me a datalog.
Yeah your fuel tables allow a wide window of opportunity for vtec engagement, which is interesting. I don't know if it's the shorty header you have or what, or just the combo of stock airbox with the Mishimoto hose or what. Most cars have a window of opportunity that is small, but yours is pretty broad. So I don't want to go too low based on the stock cat being in there, but we'll see how the fuel data looks in the next datalog to better see how the switch looks at 4600.
I-vtec is basically a system where in order for vtec to engage at 4600, there have to be certain parameters met to cause the ECU to engage vtec. The main one being manifold pressure. So, say you're driving a part throttle past 4600, vtec won't engage. But if you go past 4600 at near WOT, then it will engage vtec to help you accelerate. Play with it while you're driving, try shifting past 4600 at part throttle and you will notice vtec won't engage, then try it again at 80% throttle or so and see it kick on. With the upper limit at 5400, no matter what vtec will come on at 5400. Older generations of vtec didn't have the luxury of an engagement window, with i-vtec you can have a lower vtec rpm and not be constantly clicking in and out of vtec for no reason.
Yeah take the next one for a datalog when you can. We can keep moving forward, I just wanted to see if any variables changed and when they did such as new gas and what not.
No the o2 sensor won't throw a code, that's the funny part of it. Now that we've tuned the car with a proper working sensor though it won't impact the tune if the sensor goes bad. When you go WOT, it uses the fuel tables we've tuned so that it doesn't rely on the 02 sensor reading. We basically use it to tune the car, but in WOT it will go by the tables we built. Whereas, in part throttle it uses the primary sensor to make fuel trims to keep the part throttle AFR in line. It's what they refer to as open loop operation and closed loop. What I recommend guys do is datalog every few months just for fun, say a drive to work or something and just look things over or shoot me a datalog.
Yeah your fuel tables allow a wide window of opportunity for vtec engagement, which is interesting. I don't know if it's the shorty header you have or what, or just the combo of stock airbox with the Mishimoto hose or what. Most cars have a window of opportunity that is small, but yours is pretty broad. So I don't want to go too low based on the stock cat being in there, but we'll see how the fuel data looks in the next datalog to better see how the switch looks at 4600.
I-vtec is basically a system where in order for vtec to engage at 4600, there have to be certain parameters met to cause the ECU to engage vtec. The main one being manifold pressure. So, say you're driving a part throttle past 4600, vtec won't engage. But if you go past 4600 at near WOT, then it will engage vtec to help you accelerate. Play with it while you're driving, try shifting past 4600 at part throttle and you will notice vtec won't engage, then try it again at 80% throttle or so and see it kick on. With the upper limit at 5400, no matter what vtec will come on at 5400. Older generations of vtec didn't have the luxury of an engagement window, with i-vtec you can have a lower vtec rpm and not be constantly clicking in and out of vtec for no reason.
Yeah take the next one for a datalog when you can. We can keep moving forward, I just wanted to see if any variables changed and when they did such as new gas and what not.
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Ok. Anything to be worried about or concerned?
Thanks for explaining and thanks for offering the help like that. I would love to periodically send over datalogs to check over. Thanks!
And thanks for explaining. I tested it out while driving and did notice it. That's awesome!
How's things looking with this one? - https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... A?e=WQLVj9
Thanks again. I'm learning a lot in this process as you explain things. I really appreciate that!
Thanks for explaining and thanks for offering the help like that. I would love to periodically send over datalogs to check over. Thanks!
And thanks for explaining. I tested it out while driving and did notice it. That's awesome!
How's things looking with this one? - https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... A?e=WQLVj9
Thanks again. I'm learning a lot in this process as you explain things. I really appreciate that!
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Not necessarily. It's just interesting how it showed up all the sudden, but I think in the first few datalogs you were driving around in slower speed and not cruising in sixth gear. So the combination of sixth gear cruising and turning off the knock retard function might have been why it did it. It's all in cylinder 2 now, so it could be hearing some odd noise, but it was reduced quite a bit in this one so we will continue as we were to remove it. When you fill up with gas again, we might revisit the old ignition map, but based on the timing of your last fill up I don't think it's bad gas or lower octane.
Overall everything is looking great. Part throttle fuel trims are dialed, and WOT fueling only needed a couple adjustments. Take this one for a drive when you can and we will see how the knock looks. It looks like the sixth gear cruising is the sensitive area, so keep driving the same route you have been in the last few datalogs.
Overall everything is looking great. Part throttle fuel trims are dialed, and WOT fueling only needed a couple adjustments. Take this one for a drive when you can and we will see how the knock looks. It looks like the sixth gear cruising is the sensitive area, so keep driving the same route you have been in the last few datalogs.
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
I see. Yea, the first few datalogs, I didn't have to drive as far to get to the spot to be able to do the 3rd gear WOT pull. It was a little sketchy with a lot of cops and other cars so need to do a further drive on a highway to get to the new spot. Is it not good to put the car in 6 gear while cruising around 60-62 on the highway?
And sounds good. I'll be able to get a datalog when I pick my son up from school today. I'll drive the same route. Thanks again and super excited!
And sounds good. I'll be able to get a datalog when I pick my son up from school today. I'll drive the same route. Thanks again and super excited!
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
No it's fine to have it in 6th gear at that speed. It's all about personal driving style, and the type of road you're on. Just be sure to not try to accelerate hard in sixth gear at lower speeds. These cars need the lower gear to get them moving, so they need that gear ratio to move. I don't want to tell anyone how to drive their car, but sometimes I see guys going WOT in 6th gear at 50 mph thinking it's going to accelerate. Sadly we just don't have the torque and HP to make that work. But yeah, you're fine to drive it that way. What I tell guys with intakes, if you can hear the intake sound and the car isn't accelerating, then you need to lower the gear for that type of acceleration. Low rpm and high load is the most common combo for knock.
It also shows why tuning is so important. Your car may be more sensitive than others, and that's just how it ease. Oddly enough, more efficient setups actual require less ignition to stop knock. You would think it's the other way around, but OEM might be able to handle more ignition that a setup like yours. So it's all part of the game, which is why I turned off the knock retard function for now so we are getting a 1:1 view of ignition without the ECU pulling timing. Then once we get it knock free, I turn it back on so it's there to pull timing when it's hot and if it sees any future knock you might have on a random drive.
The best thing though is you don't have any knock on the WOT pulls, so that's good. We're just chasing that knock in part throttle while cruising. We'll see how it looks later today.
It also shows why tuning is so important. Your car may be more sensitive than others, and that's just how it ease. Oddly enough, more efficient setups actual require less ignition to stop knock. You would think it's the other way around, but OEM might be able to handle more ignition that a setup like yours. So it's all part of the game, which is why I turned off the knock retard function for now so we are getting a 1:1 view of ignition without the ECU pulling timing. Then once we get it knock free, I turn it back on so it's there to pull timing when it's hot and if it sees any future knock you might have on a random drive.
The best thing though is you don't have any knock on the WOT pulls, so that's good. We're just chasing that knock in part throttle while cruising. We'll see how it looks later today.
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
Cool, thanks for the tips.
And if I read that correctly, are you saying going back to OEM setup would be better than my current setup? Thanks again!
Here's the logs from today:
Normal Drive: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... g?e=aLPP5y
WOT: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... ?e=tZqNZr
And if I read that correctly, are you saying going back to OEM setup would be better than my current setup? Thanks again!
Here's the logs from today:
Normal Drive: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... g?e=aLPP5y
WOT: https://computerhale-my.sharepoint.com/ ... ?e=tZqNZr
Re: Aloha! Just got FlashPro for my 2008 SI, any tips or help?
No, definitely don't back to the OEM setup. I was just mentioning that removing timing is sometimes a bi-product of a more efficient setup. Some guys think a custom tune should have more ignition than stock, as most of the time ignition is equated to power. So when we were removing timing for the knock, I was just pointing at that it could be a sign of efficiency over the stock setup. But no, definitely don't back to stock. Your setup seems to work pretty good for having the OEM cat in there.
We're definitely getting there. We only had a couple knock on each datalog, but I think they were related to intake air temps more than ignition. It looks like you had a warmer day today than previous datalogs, the intake temps were up a bit. In the temp range in these datalogs, the ECU would normally be pulling timing for the temperature, but since I have that system turned off it won't pull timing. So I will turn it back on now, and we will see how it looks. No knock on the WOT pull which is great. All the fueling is pretty dead on now, I made one small half percent adjustment in one area of WOT fueling.
Take this one for a spin when you can.
We're definitely getting there. We only had a couple knock on each datalog, but I think they were related to intake air temps more than ignition. It looks like you had a warmer day today than previous datalogs, the intake temps were up a bit. In the temp range in these datalogs, the ECU would normally be pulling timing for the temperature, but since I have that system turned off it won't pull timing. So I will turn it back on now, and we will see how it looks. No knock on the WOT pull which is great. All the fueling is pretty dead on now, I made one small half percent adjustment in one area of WOT fueling.
Take this one for a spin when you can.