2015 SI tune help

2012+ US/Canadian Civic Si / 2013+ ILX
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

No problem, I'll use your revised calibration to make adjustments to. Man I can't even imagine how cold it is outside during this last datalog based on your ECT2 temps and IATs, yikes.

Like we talked, you will need RDXs as the injector duty cycle was around 94% at redline. Granted it was a little rich, but we're definitely in need of the RDXs moving forward.

That datalog looked pretty good for the new intake. I made a few adjustments to the fueling to account for the intake. Go ahead and make another datalog with this newest revision when you can. I am curious to see if the knock control value comes down to normal values. It's maxed out in this datalog, meaning it's pulling a lot of timing on WOT and some in part throttle. So if the WOT pull didn't feel too impressive, it's probably because it was pulling 6-7* of timing during the pull. We'll see how it looks in the next one.
Cashman.SD.Rev02.fpcal
(22.98 KiB) Downloaded 56 times
Z_Cashman
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by Z_Cashman »

yeah that first one there wasn't particularly impressive. I see it max out there in the pull at like 90% ish. Reputable RDX's definitely next for the rbc set up. It may be a while until i get everything bought and machined ready for installing. The temps are like -20C up here in Canada, thats why i was messing with the cold start to warm quicker.
Attachments
datalog0011.fpdl
(5.66 MiB) Downloaded 65 times
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

Sounds good. Yeah the RDXs will give you plenty of room and should drop the duty cycle to the 70% range.

Can you do me a favor, can you upload our last Hybrid calibration we made before you installed the intake and just let it idle for a few minutes in the driveway? The knock control value is maxed still in this newest datalog and I don't know why. We didn't have that until we went to the new speed density calibrations, so I am curious to see what is going on. If you don't mind, throw our last revision before you put the intake on (One with "Hybrid" in the title) and make a datalog of it idling for five minute or so if you can. I'd like to see if the knock control value changes, or stays the same.
Z_Cashman
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by Z_Cashman »

i put on the most recent hybrid tune and let it warm up a bit first, let me know how it is.
Attachments
datalog0012 Idle on Hybrid.fpdl
(1.01 MiB) Downloaded 58 times
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

Okay, go ahead and put the latest SD.Rev02 calibration back in it so you can drive it around. I'll have to look into this one, your knock control is maxed with both calibrations. I would guess that it means the knock sensor may have failed, but I don't know for sure. Let me research it and see if I can find anything. I don't think it's something that could have been damaged or unplugged during the intake install, thought it happened between our last hybrid calibration and the first SD calibration which is strange. So let me look it over some, SD.Rev02 looked really good, so it's good to drive on for right now while I look into this.
Z_Cashman
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by Z_Cashman »

Okay sounds good! Is there a reason vtech is at 4500 low and 5.5k Upper. Is one of those part throttle and other is WOT. Or is that the transition into vtech from low cams to high cams? I was thinking of moving those values closer together. I imagine it would mess up some timing and stuff to just change it so let me know. :)
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

The lower and upper vtec RPM thresholds are a product of the i-Vtec system from Honda. Without i-Vtec, older generation Hondas with vtec had one set RPM for vtec to engage. Back in the day, guys thought having vtec at the lowest RPM possible was the way to go, but it's not. On the flip side, some setups did like a lower RPM for vtec but guys would engage vtec at part throttle which was annoying. Say it was good at 4000rpm on a 2000 Civic Si, that meant the guy had to shift before 4000 or vtec would engage even at part throttle. Or worse yet, say his freeway cruising RPM was 4200, he would then be in vtec on the freeway/highway for long trips, which isn't good, you don't want to be in vtec for hours for various reasons.

With i-Vtec, there is a lower and upper threshold that requires certain parameters to engage vtec. So say you are driving at part throttle and rev up to 5000rpm, vtec won't engage because you aren't near WOT. However, if you're driving around part throttle and rev to 5500 vtec will engage no matter what because the upper threshold is at 5500. So the vtec RPM window allows you to drive through the lower RPM threshold at part throttle without engaging vtec, but if you give it near WOT it will engage, hence the I in i-Vtec. Moving them closer together won't make any difference, unless you want vtec to come on no matter what at a lower RPM.

Moving them around can also impact the cam angle map, so let me know what you're thinking as far as making changes so I can see if it impacts the cam angle map and make changes if needed. Hopefully this helps clear up your questions.You can make both thresholds the same RPM if you absolutely want it to come on all the time at one RPM, it's totally up to you. I would recommend playing with throttle modulation next time you drive it. Run it past 4500 in part throttle as you're going through the gears. Then give it a little more throttle to engage vtec, that way you can get a feel for how it works. Also, try shifting past 5500 in part throttle so you can see how it engages no matter what throttle there.
Z_Cashman
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by Z_Cashman »

Yeah that makes sense! I herd conflicting info when i looked it up. I know certain builds like it lower activation; I think I'll leave it alone. It definitely wouldn't be optimal cruising in vtech on the highway haha! I got bulk of my parts now and it will prob be a while before i get it machined and such for install.
Any info on that knock sensor?
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

Yeah when you have a dyno you can use the graphs to find the overlap in RPM for vtec, and of course cam angle mapping. When e-tuning, you use the fuel tables in a similar manner meaning that where it demands the most fuel it's making the most power. So on the vtec crossover, we're looking at injector data too to make sure the pulse is the same or slightly higher on the crossover. If the injector pulse dips at vtec, then vtec is too early. It's not a 100% science of course, but definitely a lot better than just saying one vtec RPM is ideal and giving that to everyone. I try to make these calibrations as custom to your vehicles as I can.

No, I haven't found more on the knock control value. I've been a little strapped for time too, but the research I have done I can't seem to find anyone with a similar issue. Nor have I of course sadly. I mean I've seen maxed knock control values, but not without knock and certainly not static over multiple datalogs. Maybe I'll try to shoot an email to the Hondata boys and see, I would imagine they have seen just about everything with these cars.
Z_Cashman
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by Z_Cashman »

So I've looked into it and found minimal info but it could be the fuel. I'm using 91 winter gas here, perhaps a higher octane could help or an engine cleaner? Even the sensor could be on the way out. We could test the continuity or a new one.
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

If it poor fuel, we would have some knock being recorded. There is minimal knock retard happening, which with a 144 k control it should be pulling some all the time to prevent knock. It happened all the sudden, one datalog was good and the next it was pegged, and going back a few revisions it was still pegged. Which makes me thing knock sensor failure, or reduction in performance at least. Since I've never experienced this, sadly we're learning on the fly. Granted I've seen high k control values before, but they were from result of knock being registered. So the fact that you are not showing any knock, with a maxed k control, something appears to be wrong mechanically like the knock sensor is causing an issue. I would try to test it if you can, or perhaps get a new one. I just hate to have to throw things at it, but I don't have any solid information to determine what the actual culprit is.
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

So I haven't been able to find much on this problem. However, today I had a guy come to me with an 8th gen who has a knock sensor fault code and his k control is at 144. You may have a bad knock sensor, but I can't say for sure. Granted you don't show any codes in the system, but I don't know what else it could be honestly. The only odd thing is the timing of it happening, but you never know when they might go. But the fact that the k control is maxed in the current calibration, and when going back to our old calibration, it has to be something mechanically which is most likely the sensor. The k control was fine before in older datalogs, so something appears to have happened with the knock sensor. Sadly with 9th gens, I can't see the knock sensor activity like I can with 8th gens. Then I could see the poor reading from the knock sensor or not.

Let me know what you think.
Z_Cashman
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by Z_Cashman »

Rbc is on the way back from the shop, spark plugs otw and new knock sensor ready for install. I have everything ready by the end of the week.
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by EFICU »

Sounds good, let me know the night before install so I can send you the first file. The RBC will require an entirely different calibration. Are you adding RDXs too, or seeing how the stocks do?
Z_Cashman
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

Re: 2015 SI tune help

Post by Z_Cashman »

Rdx injectors will be installed also. I got the coolant bypass,throttle spacer,zdx throttle too. Rbc has been port matched to the zdx and polished. On my next oil change I have a magnetic drain plug ready.

Install should be end of week/start of next.
Post Reply