Tuning with H20 injection.

FK2 Civic Type R 2015-2017, FK8 Civic Type R 2017-2021, FL5 Civic Type R 2023+ and Integra Type S 2024+
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touge tom
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:16 am

Tuning with H20 injection.

Post by touge tom »

As title suggests... has anybody tried tuning with water Injection? I'm currently using the 91 Oct intercooler/Dp mods.(car pulls great, thanks Dougie and team for the great base maps) With an almost close 1:1 water to fuel mixture with a AEM progressive controller. Car doesn't hesitate or bog down which is great. And I've leaned out the target AFR to 13.5 in the 100% to 230% columns with no knock detected yet. I'd like to see if I can hold out 230% air charge all across the rev range when I get time to?
touge tom
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:16 am

Re: Tuning with H20 injection.

Post by touge tom »

been a couple days since the install of the injection kit. wasnt long till i bought a 20L drum of VP M1 methanol. now running a 50/50 water/meth mixture. now on 100 ron maps. seeing intake temps of 24c/75f degrees on boost. HPFP duty peaked @ 83% @4000 rpm and droped to 63% @ 6800ish rpm @ WOT. meanwhile the AirC was 230% acorss the entire rev range. torque tables where set to 500Nm @ 100 throttle column. waste gate mm stayed above 1mm. and seeing boost of 1.6 to 1.7 bar. im presuming the methanol is supplementing the HPFP duty % requirements from the O2 readings. just to add the AFR's never leaned out. unfortunately I didnt save and download the log. when I remember to ill post a new a log.
touge tom
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:16 am

Re: Tuning with H20 injection.

Post by touge tom »

finally got on the dyno today. car made 240Kw/321Hp. only mods where 3.5 down pipe to a 3 front pipe with stock exhaust system. high flow filter with factory honda box and intake plumbing. water/meth injection. and here are the logs. any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated?
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run3.fpdl
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run 5.fpdl
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run 4.fpdl
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run 2.fpdl
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run 1.fpdl
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touge tom
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:16 am

Re: Tuning with H20 injection.

Post by touge tom »

im thinking the previous dyno read out i got @ 240kw/320hp ATWs was due to too much water/meth being sprayed in. I was using previously a 500cc nozzle. im guessing it was killing the flame front and chilling the combustion chamber too much. ive recently just put in a 250cc nozzle. the temp drop is the same at around 25c degrees. but its more progressive vs the boost pressure in the intake manifold, and this makes the car feel more crisp/punchy with throttle transitions. the W/M kit begins to spray @ atmospheric and is set on full 250cc spray by 35psi on the AEM controller. although the map sensor never sees this much boost. ive tried to aim for a 0.20:1 water/meth:fuel mass via the engines dynamic displacement. for example 245% aic charge (on the 100 ron calibration) is equivalent to 4900cc of displacement @21.3psig or 36psi total including vacuum, on a 2000cc motor @ sea level/101kpa. so to figure this out I took the the overall dynamic displacement and divided it by the disired lambda/AFR 13.5. which give us 363cc rounded out. so we need 73cc rounded out. a 250cc nozzle is 69% rounded when compared to the 363cc of fuel mass. so were 28% over on flow of W/M on a 250cc nozzle. now the AEM controller is set to max out to 250cc @ 35psig. 21.3psig is 60% of 35psi which is 152cc rounded @ 245% air charge. so this gives us a 0.42:1 (W21%/M21%) W/M to fuel mass by VOLUME!. so in conclusion its X2 more than what I wanted but it can be sorted out with more ignition timing. from what ive researched online evry 0.50:1 straight water to fuel mass gives an average of 8 ron increase in octane rating. with the meth i can only assume its more, but how much more? when i get time ill post more logs/results from the dyno when i get it booked in. btw W/M is a 50/50 mix.
touge tom
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:16 am

Re: Tuning with H20 injection.

Post by touge tom »

after reviewing the first 5 data logs i posted up when compared to this one it apears the W/M kit wasnt armed. there is a significant drop in temp when air charge builds. on another note my calculations where slightly off but still with in the "ball park". turns out a 250cc nozzle from the AEM kit is exactly right for a 0.50:1 W/M to fuel mass at a 13.5 AFR by dynamic volume. so the controller maxes out at 35psi. heres how i worked it out.

2000cc motor at 14.7(atmospheric) 1:1 dynamic displacement ratio. ("ddr").

2000cc motor at 14.7("atmo")+ 35psi = 49.7psi which is 3.38 "ddr".

49.7psi divided by 14.7 = 3.38.

2000cc X 3.38 "ddr" = 6762cc "rounded to the closest whole number.

6762cc divided by a 13.5:1 AFR = 500cc by volume. this would give a 1:1 W/M to fuel mass ratio using a 500cc nozzle.

so a 250cc nozzle obviously gives a 0.50:1 W/M to fuel mass ratio.

500cc 1:1 ratio

1000cc 2:1 ratio

obviously, different controllers with less/more psi range, displacement engines and desired AFR's the out come changes.

hope this formula helps.
Attachments
WM50 actually working this time[3669].fpdl
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