Altitude and Boost Consideration

FK2 Civic Type R 2015-2017, FK8 Civic Type R 2017-2021, FL5 Civic Type R 2023+ and Integra Type S 2024+
carlitos1206
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Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Hello,

I would like to understand how your custom calibration maps are considering the boost on different altitude situations

Currently, I understand that the FK8 Civic Type R adjust Boost pressure based on Environment Pressure from OEM calibration

- With a new map from your pre stablished calibrations did you consider altitude change???

For example (and my particular case) .... I drive the vehicle normally at 1700 meters above sea level and normally travel to a 2600 meters above sea level and of course some times go at sea level

I immediately notice that boost levels are completely different in each location

Am I going to have a problem or will have any risk if I use your Hondata custom calibrations on these conditions???

Please let me know

Thank you
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Spunkster
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by Spunkster »

We are not aware of any issues with our calibrations being used at high altitudes on the Civic Type R. To keep form over spinning the turbo it will reduce boost a little at high altitudes. There will be some loss of power at high altitudes as the air is thinner.
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Hondata
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by Hondata »

The 'Turbo Max Ratio (PA)' controls the maximum pressure ratio across the turbo compressor, and the ratio decreases as the ambient air pressure decreases. So from the factory you will see less boost at elevation.
With our calibrations we have increased the pressure ratio so that up to 2100m there is no loss in boost. The spool up is slower, but the boost level is the same as at sea level.
Eventually the turbo boost will reduce in order to stop the turbo from over-speeding.
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carlitos1206
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Hi,

Sorry for retake this same (old) topic but I have same question about the new features of turbocharger boost limits
Capture.png
Capture.png (35.82 KiB) Viewed 3499 times
1) Is this safe to use this mod on the pre stablished hondata calibrations created by you???? or is it necessary to have custom tune???

and most important:
2) Is it safe to use this mod on different altitude considerations as my old/previous questions???

Thank you for your continuous support!!!!
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Hondata
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by Hondata »

It just raises some of the PR limits from 3 and also boost limits from 3 bar. The limit tables (PA, IAT etc) are still used so it is safe.

If you're worried about altitude or turbo speed in general then look at the wastegate position. If it gets below 1mm then it is time to reduce boost. Usually it is more like 2-3mm even at high boost.
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carlitos1206
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Ive just made some quick data logging, please see attached calibration and two datalogs

1st datalog: 3rd gear pull from 1500ish to 6800 rpm at WOT
2nd datalog: 2nd 3rd and 4th gear at WOT

I see Wastegate aprox at 1.5+ at full boost and some knock retard .... could you please comment on my calibration and datalog???

I would like to increase the power output to have a quicker acceleration specially in scenarios like after a corner (I do a lot of time attacks) .... I feel like boost takes TOO much time to load so car feels slow to recover acceleration ... if possible, could you give me some advice to improve this situation????

Current bolt on mods are: Mishimoto Intake, Greddy Supreme SP HG Catback .... basically nothing that "really" improves performance

Thank you for your time!!!

Carlos
Attachments
Trial_REV3.fpcal
(16.67 KiB) Downloaded 111 times
datalog0001.fpdl
(75.8 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
datalog0000.fpdl
(55.61 KiB) Downloaded 93 times
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Hondata
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by Hondata »

At altitude the turbo will spool up slower and there is not much you can do about it.

You're not making much boost, so you could raise the air charge limit 5% at a time and keep an eye on the knock retard.
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carlitos1206
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Hello,

I made some trials based on your recommendation of increase air charge limit 5% at a time and realized that there is no actual increase of AirC between 5% and 15%

It was slightly difficult to have same IAT2 on both scenarios so I had to wait until it was possible

Is there other parameter limiting my boost??? ... because no actual increase of it even 15% increase of AirC ... I wanted to try 25% increase but could not achieve same IAT2 to make a direct comparisson so at this time no data for that

Attached you will find calibration of +5% and +15% with each data log .... I used same base calibration as previous post just increased AirC limit

No problem with knock retard maybe because no actual change in AirC

Thank you very much for your continous support!!

Carlos
Attachments
Trial_REV6(15per).fpcal
(16.68 KiB) Downloaded 106 times
Trial_REV4(5per).fpcal
(16.74 KiB) Downloaded 96 times
+15%.fpdl
(31.42 KiB) Downloaded 102 times
+5%.fpdl
(24.86 KiB) Downloaded 110 times
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Hondata
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by Hondata »

PA = 82 kPA and I'm guessing about 5% loss through to the turbo, so the turbo sees around 78 kPa. Picking 4000 rpm the IAT PR table is 3.13, so the turbo will be restricted to 244 kPa. Actual BP cmd at this point 243 kPa (and I did not cheat).

So it is the turbo max ratio (temp) table. Increase by 0.2 at a time everywhere. Keep an eye on the wastegate position at high rpm - you want it to be 1mm or more.
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carlitos1206
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Nice calculation!! I trust you didn't cheat .... I did same exercise but I did not included the 5% loss due to honestly I did not knew that, therefore I couldn't conclude that Turbo Max Ratio (Temp) was responsible to limit boost so thank you very much for your answer ... nice know how!!

I have one quick question (I am a little bit confused) about IAT and IAT2 consideration on Turbo Max Ratio (Temp)

Which value (IAT or IAT2) does the calibration use for calculating the Turbo Max Ratio (TEMP)???

Table shows that IAT2 is the considered:
TableIAT2.PNG
TableIAT2.PNG (14.39 KiB) Viewed 3349 times
But today checking the datalogging I saw that it is actually using IAT value:
IATRelation.PNG
IATRelation.PNG (36.83 KiB) Viewed 3349 times
Therefore, should I focus on IAT value (instead of IAT2) in order to improve my calibration file and overall vehicle performance????

My understanding is: IAT=After Air Cleaner-Before TC .... IAT2= After Intercooler-Before Intake Manifold .... is this correct????


Thank you for your continous support!!

Carlos
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Hondata
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by Hondata »

The 'turbo max ratio (temp)' uses IAT2. I'll check the table tracing is correct.

IAT2 = in the AFM before the turbo.

IAT = in the manifold.
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carlitos1206
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Hello,

After some time I contact again, sorry for late feedback

I have now replaced Downpipe and Frontpipe to my vehicle and refreshed my trial calibration and would like to have some feedback from your side if possible

I went to a dyno session last weekend, took some datalogs and I got worried about AF behaviour ... as you can see in the picture is basically oscillating during RPM up
AF_Oscillation.PNG
AF_Oscillation.PNG (55.55 KiB) Viewed 2559 times

Im actually very satisfied with Dyno result (chart is very smooth and number is what I expected, at this moment I dont have picture sorry but it dynoed 380hp) but such behaviour of AF IMO is not so healthy

Could you please let me know if such behaviour is resulting from my calibration file and how I can smooth it????? (attached you will find Calibration file and datalog)

Really thank you for your time, support and patience

Carlos
carlitos1206
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Hi,

Please let me know if you have any comment .... I am very interested in any feedback you could give me

Thank you

Carlos
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Hondata
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by Hondata »

You need to tune the AFM to get the fuel trims closer to 0%.
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carlitos1206
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Re: Altitude and Boost Consideration

Post by carlitos1206 »

Hi!!!

I was suspecting that actually, thank you for confirming it

I am not so sure how to proper adjust the AFM Flow table .... could you please give some advice on how I should start to adjust it??? (my guess is to keep same volt value and increase mg value) but how to adjust accordingly the mg value????

Thank you for your continous support
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