2009 TC... issues

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:41 am

Hondata wrote:Thanks for your patience. From the datalogs we can see that a FlashPro setting of EGRL datalogs the ELD pin and a FlashPro setting of ELD doesn't do anything sensible (your point #2). We've traced this back to the Euro (& Asia, but not US) S2000 code, and fixed the problem. Even so, I would expect that it would work in the configuration for datalogs #0 & #1.

I'll make a new software version very shortly.

In any case, you will need to download & install the updated FlashProManager, then re-test. When you make datalogs I suggest plugging in both the FlashPro and TractionControl units at the same time; in this way the FlashPro datalog will contain wheel speed & other information.
My Flashpro and TC were both plugged in during the datalogs.

One other observation: Today I uplugged the wiring harness from the TC control box. Flashpro calibration was still set to "EGRL." But even with the harness unplugged, if you set the software to EGRL, you get a severe ignition retard as soon as you hit the TC min RPM. So it seems like your software is taking the wrong input for "EGRL."

When do you anticipate the revision to come out?

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8755
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:01 am

It was posted on Tuesday. Re-download and install.
Hondata

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:17 am

Hondata wrote:It was posted on Tuesday. Re-download and install.
Ok, will try the new version.

I am assuming you want me to pin to the ELD pin?

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8755
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:31 am

Either inputs should work.
Hondata

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:38 am

I initially had it plugged into EGRL... it did not seem to work as generating an output voltage did not register an ECU voltage.

Repinning it to ELD does result in ECU voltage = TC output voltage.

BUT, I took the car on a rainy day, and TC does not function. Launching the car I could easily bounce it off the rev limiter as long as I wanted.

I don't know why, but when I view live data, I can see the front and rear speed sensors registering the speed, but in the datalog (attached) it shows nothing. There are a couple blips were TC Retard is registered, but I dont feel it when driving, TC does not have any effect I can feel.

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:54 am

logs attached.

In both data logs I initiated massive rear wheel spin.
Attachments
Rafi1.tcc
(1.01 KiB) Downloaded 220 times
Rafi2-NA-adv.fpcal
(7.36 KiB) Downloaded 220 times
latest2.fpdl
(52.58 KiB) Downloaded 223 times
latest1.fpdl
(33.1 KiB) Downloaded 223 times

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8755
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:04 am

It is showing an input voltage, a retard amount and the ignition also shows retard, so it is looking ok. What you need to do is (in order):

- Datalog with both FlashPro and TractionControl plugged in; that way the datalog will show the wheel speeds and other TC information.

- Find out why there is a 0.23-0.25V offset on the TC input (is it grounded to the rear of the cylinder head?)

- Use the TC test mode to output a voltage, then check the FlashPro ELD input matches (you'll need to fix the voltage offset first).

- Use the TC test mode on a free rev to check the ignition retards by the correct amount.

- Start increasing the amount of ignition retard if you're getting too much wheelspin.
Hondata

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:12 am

Ok, I'll work on correcting the voltage offset.

What do you mean when you say, "Use the TC test mode on a free rev to check the ignition retards by the correct amount." Please elaborate. Do you mean activating TC Slip on the test mode and look for corresponding ignition retard?

By the way, I did datalog with TC and FP plugged in. I can see the wheel speed sensor data when I view live data, but when i datalog, it shows "o" for wheel speed data... I do not understand this.

Rafi

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8755
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:44 am

I'll look at the datalogging to see if there is a problem.

First use the TractionControl 'Testing' -> 'ECU Command Output Test' at 1V, 2V, 3V, 4V and check the datalogged TC.V is correct.

Then, tf the minimum rpm is set to 2000 in FlashPro, rev the engine to 2500 and do the same thing (1V, 2V, 3V...), checking that the ignition retards. Normally you can hear the engine note change as soon as you change the test output voltage.
Hondata

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:35 am

Hondata wrote:I'll look at the datalogging to see if there is a problem.

First use the TractionControl 'Testing' -> 'ECU Command Output Test' at 1V, 2V, 3V, 4V and check the datalogged TC.V is correct.

Then, tf the minimum rpm is set to 2000 in FlashPro, rev the engine to 2500 and do the same thing (1V, 2V, 3V...), checking that the ignition retards. Normally you can hear the engine note change as soon as you change the test output voltage.

OK, I do not have a voltage offset anymore, I wired ground directly to engine ground, so that is solved (previously I followed your instructions and wired to the ECU ground).

Yes, when I test ECU output voltage, it results in a corresponding ignition retard which kicks in as soon as the min RPM is reached. BUT, I can tell you that the TC is not doing anything when I am driving. I can burnout the rear wheels all I want in the rain -- nothing is happening, same for lateral drift. I went into the TC calibration in Flashpro and significantly ramped up the ign retard curve -- and I do not feel TC kicking in.

I've attached 3 screenshots (you need to rename the attached file with a .PDF extention, I had to give it a .fpdl extention because your system down not allow attachment of other file types):

(1) First one I activate the test TC output voltage and it seems to be working properly (output voltage results in corresponding ECU voltage which kicks in an ignition retard).

(2) Second one I activate the TC Overslip, and for some reason TC overslip % reads "0" but TC output reads a voltage???

(3) Third screenshot shows that when I datalog in the TC window and click "read datalog" nothing is displayed in the datalog box below?!
Attachments
TC-screenshot.fpdl
(488.42 KiB) Downloaded 241 times

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:50 am

I think I am being very patient here, but let me review the situation:

(1) I was sold a product by your dealer Inlinepro that was supposed to work with my car.

(2) This product has clearly never been tested on the Euro spec S2000, and clearly does not work on the euro spec cars.

(3) I have dedicated many, many hours of my valuable time, in good faith, to getting this product to work.

(4) As of January 8th, it still doesn't work.

(5) Most people have returned from vacation last week, and yet it is now Tuesday January 8th and still no response.


I need to contact someone at Hondata, BY TELEPHONE, in order to finish with these issues. So far, I have tried to call and was told that it is impossible to speak to anyone by telephone.

My email is Rafi@RR-racing.com.... please send me your contact details, I will not be playing forum tag anymore.

thanks,

Rafi

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8755
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:42 am

My apologies, I only have returned for vacation and have so far just started to work through the many hundreds of outstanding emails.

We deliberately delayed the release of the Traction Control outside the US to allow for more testing, but did not anticipate that someone in the US would have a Euro spec S2000. There were problems identified & fixed with the Euro S2000 Traction Control which you are aware of.

Our phones are manned 9-4:30 PST, and I'm not sure what the problem is contacting us.

There still are many questions which we need to ask - for instance, if it is a Euro spec S2000, what ECU is it using and what type of FlashPro? Euro FlashPros are not normally sold inside the US and it could be that you are using a US ECU. Also we still have no matched datalogs from both the FlashPro & TC using the latest software version showing the problem.

As per your wish we will contact you by telephone. We'll email you for the phone number.
Hondata

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:19 pm

Hondata wrote:My apologies, I only have returned for vacation and have so far just started to work through the many hundreds of outstanding emails.

We deliberately delayed the release of the Traction Control outside the US to allow for more testing, but did not anticipate that someone in the US would have a Euro spec S2000. There were problems identified & fixed with the Euro S2000 Traction Control which you are aware of.

Our phones are manned 9-4:30 PST, and I'm not sure what the problem is contacting us.

There still are many questions which we need to ask - for instance, if it is a Euro spec S2000, what ECU is it using and what type of FlashPro? Euro FlashPros are not normally sold inside the US and it could be that you are using a US ECU. Also we still have no matched datalogs from both the FlashPro & TC using the latest software version showing the problem.

As per your wish we will contact you by telephone. We'll email you for the phone number.


Just to clarify, the car is a euro-spec S2000 located in Israel. My euro-spec Flashpro purchased from CPL Racing (UK) is working flawlessly, and I am very happy with it. I purchased TC from Inlinepro after verifying with them that TC will work on euro-spec cars. Christian at Inlinepro aparently contacted Hondata to verify euro spec compatability before completing my order. You are saying that "you intentionally delayed release of TC outside of US to allow for more testing," but here is CPL's link indicating that it is up for sale in the UK specifically for the euro-spec AP2: http://cplracing.co.uk/browse-manufactu ... 3&makeid=1

Is there a way that my car is somehow not a Euro-spec car when it's a 2009 and I have (1) built the engine and verified its 2000cc and (2) I am using euro-Flashpro (purchased from CPL) on this car. Is it possible to install euro-spec flashpro on a non-euro spec ECU?

My email is Rafi@RR-racing.com. Please send me your contact details and I call you to discuss in person.

The person who mans your customer service calls *refuses* to give out any telephone contact information, and insists that the forum is the *only* way to contact Hondata concerning TC tech issues.

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8755
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:09 pm

RR-racing wrote:The person who mans your customer service calls *refuses* to give out any telephone contact information, and insists that the forum is the *only* way to contact Hondata concerning TC tech issues.
Not quite true. You can phone, as you have, email or use the forum.

Did you receive our email? If so, let us know so we can close off this thread as per your wishes.
Hondata

RR-racing
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:58 am

Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:53 am

Hondata wrote:
RR-racing wrote:The person who mans your customer service calls *refuses* to give out any telephone contact information, and insists that the forum is the *only* way to contact Hondata concerning TC tech issues.
Not quite true. You can phone, as you have, email or use the forum.

Did you receive our email? If so, let us know so we can close off this thread as per your wishes.
I did not receieve an email from anyone at Hondata.

I would like to return the TC unit to Inlinepro for a refund. Please email Inlinepro and give them a heads up about it.

Of course I can call your customer service number, someone answers, but the response is useless. I pleaded with the guy who answers your phone, explaining to him I have already made attempts on the forum and I did not have time to continue the forum tag, and his response is very concise and curt, "we do not answer TC questions on the phone, you cannot speak to anyone on phone regarding these issues, the only way is by posting on the forums."

I don't know what else to tell you. My impression is that you are sincerely trying to help, but you also have to understand that my time is valuable to me and I am not prepared to expend more time on issues that are clearly not related to a fault of my installation.

Post Reply