2009 TC... issues

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2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:53 am

Ok, so I completed the install, everything seems to be connected and configured, but TC is not functioning. I am able to log TC Slip % in Flashpro and it is varying quite a bit, but TC is not functional.

A few questions which may explain my problem:

(1) Is the ELD pin the same on the 2009 US ecu & the 2009 Euro ECU? I have a 2009 Euro spec s2000.
(2) You state "The Traction Control analog output should be connected to the ECU traction control input (ELD on S300 & KPro, pin varies with FlashPro). If using the ELD pin, remove this pin from the connector and insulate the ELD wire." I spliced into the ELD wire, because I am assuming this wire is also getting feedback from the Honda VSA module? Are you saying that the ELD wire should be removed and replaced with the TC analog output wire from the Hondata TC unit?

thanks.

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Spunkster » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 pm

Try using the EGRL input instead of the ELD. European ECUs may not have ELD circuitry.

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:17 am

Lets just say that I am not too keep on wasting my time playing around trying different connection methods.

There should be a definitive answer to my simple question. I don't even have the ECU pinout for the euro spec 2009 S2000 to determine the EGRL input, and even your euro dealer CPL Racing (from whom I purchased flashpro) cannot assist me with the AP2 pinout, as amazingly they say they dont have it.

That leaves me with a TC module that does not function.

Perhaps the reason is more simple... I previously asked you if I was correct in tapping into the E15 pin ELD wire, or should I have de-pinned it and connecteed the orange TC outup wire to the ECU directly?

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:50 am

ELD is E15. EGRL is B12

There is no way it will work tapped in to a pin - "If using the ELD pin, remove this pin from the connector and insulate the ELD wire".

The Euro S2000 may or may not implement the ELD. If it does not, then we recommend using the EGRL pin, which should be empty.

To test the TC function in FlashPro set the min rpm to 100 rpm. In TC set the min speed to 0, then use the test function to generate a voltage output. If you free rev to 1000-2000 rpm, then enable/disable the TC test voltage then you should see the ignition timing retard in FlashPro.
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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Hondata wrote:ELD is E15. EGRL is B12

There is no way it will work tapped in to a pin - "If using the ELD pin, remove this pin from the connector and insulate the ELD wire".

The Euro S2000 may or may not implement the ELD. If it does not, then we recommend using the EGRL pin, which should be empty.

To test the TC function in FlashPro set the min rpm to 100 rpm. In TC set the min speed to 0, then use the test function to generate a voltage output. If you free rev to 1000-2000 rpm, then enable/disable the TC test voltage then you should see the ignition timing retard in FlashPro.

I thought I would try not removing the ELD pin (as I stated in the first post), my concern was that it would disable VSA? In any case, the strange thing is that i can log all the TC parameters in Flashpro, so clearly that signal must be coming from my "tapped in" ELD connection.

In any case, thanks for the quick response, I will de-pin the ELD tonight and try again.

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:21 pm

Ok, here is where I am (TC still not working):

(1) I depinned the ELD... TC did not function.

(2) I pinned the TC output to the EGRL wire. I setup TC in Flashpro to read EGRL. Now when I set the TC min RPM, as soon as I hit that RPM setpoint, I can see (in flashpro) that the TC Retard immediately goes to -40deg (and you can feel it). In Flashpro the TC % ship and TC output sensor values remain at zero. What could be the problem here? why would TC retard ramp up to -40deg immediately upon hitting the TC min RPM activation point?
Attachments
Rafi1.tcc
(1.01 KiB) Downloaded 284 times
Rafi2-NA-adv.fpcal
(7.35 KiB) Downloaded 292 times

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:52 pm

Are you using the 'test output' function from the TC unit, or does the TC retard act without any voltage input?

Can you send two datalogs from Flashpro, one with the TC unit normal and the other with a 2V output?
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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:53 am

Ok, see attached logs... with tc test volt 0V and at 2V (I was not driving, just reving stationary)

Also threw in several other datalogs driving.

TC min RPM set was set to 3000rpm.

It is very strange that in my live datalog screen I see "TC retard -40" when I hit 3000 rpm, but in the datalog it always reads "6554"???
Attachments
datalog0003.fpdl
(121.24 KiB) Downloaded 274 times
datalog0002.fpdl
(20.23 KiB) Downloaded 268 times
datalog0001.fpdl
(27.45 KiB) Downloaded 273 times
TC test 1 volt=2.fpdl
(21.68 KiB) Downloaded 269 times
TC test 1 volt=0.fpdl
(2.95 KiB) Downloaded 270 times

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:37 am

The datalogs are from FlashPro 1.3.7. You need 1.4.2 or later for Traction Control support.
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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:02 pm

Is this why my TC is not functioning? My flashpro update is from a month ago when i flashed the car... It certainly seems as if all the TC functions are available in the version of Flashpro I am using.

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:15 pm

Ok, I tried to cover all possible scenarios with the attached datalogs:

Datalog00000 = ELD Pin E15, TC out = 0V, Flashpro Calibration set to EGRL
Datalog00001 = ELD Pin E15, TC out = 2V, Flashpro Calibration set to EGRL
Datalog00002 = ELD Pin E15, TC out = 0V, Flashpro Calibration set to ELD
Datalog00003 = ELD Pin E15, TC out = 2V, Flashpro Calibration set to ELD

Datalog00004 = EGRL Pin B12, TC out = 0V, Flashpro Calibration set to ELD
Datalog00005 = EGRL Pin B12, TC out = 2V, Flashpro Calibration set to ELD
Datalog00006 = EGRL Pin B12, TC out = 0V, Flashpro Calibration set to EGRL
Datalog00007 = EGRL Pin B12, TC out = 2V, Flashpro Calibration set to EGRL

Observations....

(1) if you set the EGRL pin, and Flashpro is set to EGRL, you get a "TC Volt" of 5volt and a massive ignition retard at the min TC setpoint RPM.
(2) If you use the ELD pin, But set Flashpro calibration to EGRL, the TC output voltage = the TC Volt (this is the only scenario where I saw this happen).
(3) In all cases, TC does not function.
Attachments
datalog0003.fpdl
(106.17 KiB) Downloaded 262 times
datalog0002.fpdl
(116.35 KiB) Downloaded 271 times
datalog0001.fpdl
(95.75 KiB) Downloaded 280 times
datalog0000.fpdl
(128.59 KiB) Downloaded 277 times

RR-racing
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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:15 pm

more file attachments.
Attachments
datalog0007.fpdl
(65.89 KiB) Downloaded 278 times
datalog0006.fpdl
(83.73 KiB) Downloaded 278 times
datalog0005.fpdl
(99.63 KiB) Downloaded 266 times
datalog0004.fpdl
(98.17 KiB) Downloaded 267 times

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:20 pm

my calibration files
Attachments
Rafi-TC1.tcc
(1.01 KiB) Downloaded 269 times
Rafi-NA+2adv+TC.fpcal
(7.37 KiB) Downloaded 267 times

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by RR-racing » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:06 pm

Clarification: When i say TC output =0v i mean TC output test is not activated.

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Re: 2009 TC... issues

Post by Hondata » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 pm

Thanks for your patience. From the datalogs we can see that a FlashPro setting of EGRL datalogs the ELD pin and a FlashPro setting of ELD doesn't do anything sensible (your point #2). We've traced this back to the Euro (& Asia, but not US) S2000 code, and fixed the problem. Even so, I would expect that it would work in the configuration for datalogs #0 & #1.

I'll make a new software version very shortly.

In any case, you will need to download & install the updated FlashProManager, then re-test. When you make datalogs I suggest plugging in both the FlashPro and TractionControl units at the same time; in this way the FlashPro datalog will contain wheel speed & other information.
Hondata

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