some questions for Euro CL9 users

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2007-2008 US TSX
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dinoc
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 am

some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by dinoc » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:08 pm

Hi guys,

I want to purchase a Flashpro unit but first I need to know a few things.
I don't have big plans, I was hoping only for a calibration with a lower VTEC point.
I plan to have only an intake and some headers + decat.

As I have no tuner in my country, I was wondering if any of the TSX calibrations (provided by hondata along with the FlashPro unit) are working fine for the Euro CL9 ?
I need to know this before jumping in buying TSX ECU, Flashpro , adapters and other things - if the above are not working fine then I better do something else with the money (as I can see, hondata don't care about other market than US).

So please tell me from your experience what do you know and the what the issues might be (i.e. I've already saw a topic where a few are complaining about an accelerator issue)

Thanks and I'm hoping for some answers .
Euro Honda Accord CL9

beaugus
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:20 am

Re: some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by beaugus » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:27 am

Hi Dinoc, where about's in the world are you located? I'm in Australia and currently running the 07-08 TSX ECU in our 05' Accord Euro with very few issues. Modifications to date on our Euro are simply a Mugen intake kit and Cat-back exhaust system however we plan on getting extractors / high flow cat and replace the intake manifold over with the RSP manifold from my FN2 Civic Type-R so we've got a few things planned also.

Currently the only outstanding issue we have since going down the Hondata Flashpro / TSX ECU combo is we've lost cruise control due to the different gear ratios found between the American TSX and our locally delivered Euro, even though the differences are small its enough to cause cruise control issues which we are (hopefully) waiting for Hondata to get around to adding functionally in the near future as I'm sure there are few TSX owners out there with different final drives etc.

In our case, we simply uploaded the basemap TSX (for 03-05) vehicles as found in Flashpro and besides throwing a few CEL's due to sensors not existing on our Euro the tune itself was stable enough for us to drive home (although we didn't specifically try driving it hard whilst on this basemap) it was enough for us to get the car home safely to then look at getting a custom tune made up.

Some things to check with your own Accord is if you have any of the EVAP sensors found on the TSX (I honestly can't say I know if these sensors were in fact used outside of the U.S but we had to tell flashpro to ignore / disable checking for those sensors to stop reoccurring CEL's on the dash)

Also, one of the biggest head scratchers we faced was KQ model (Australian Delivered) Accord Euro's are not fitted with a VTEC oil pressure switch what so ever which really caused us to freak out for a few days during tuning because its quite difficult to establish any kind of audible VTEC transition after reflashing because the low cam/high cam VTEC change over is incredibly smooth. As it turns out, it was just a matter of instructing FlashPro to ignore the VTEC oil pressure switch option and after tuning we were able to confirm that VTEC was in fact engaging correctly.

That said, without any significant modifications like changing over to 50 degree VTC, VTEC engagement is limited to a maximum of 25 degree's on the stock Accord Euro (this is physically limited by the VTC actuator itself) meaning you won't get any real "kick" no matter what you try getting out of it, in fact since we've tuned the car the power delivery is smooth and consistent all throughout the rev range and even going beyond the 7000RPM rev limit every now and then reminds you of how much pull the K24 actually has hiding away.

As the factory VTEC point is 6000 I can sympathise with why you're after lowering your VTEC point as I'm sure you'll agree that 1) its set fairly high to engage for normal or spirited driving without speeding everywhere and 2) you run out of rev's pretty quickly thereafter and you don't feel as much reward from reving so high.

To maintain a close to stock feeling driving experience we've had our VTEC engagement point set to 4700RPM giving us much more usability on a daily basis without giving the car a bootfull everywhere as we've found setting it around that 4700-5000rpm mark is almost ideal as you gain slightly better torque down low from tuning and by the time you reach VTEC it transitions over from torque to power delivery seamlessly meaning if you've after getting up to speed or hearing the exhaust in all its glory it happens progressively without causing you to look and sound like your even trying. - This was exactly what we were hoping for after going this this whole tuning path.

So with all that said I can confirm that the TSX Flashpro and ECU combo on our Accord Euro was well worth the money spent considering the change in the car before and after, it was a bit of messing around to begin with and I regularly check on the forums here to see if Hondata have posted an updated Flash Pro manager with further TSX features so we can finally sign off on our tune and get our cruise control back.

I'd still ask around and see what other Euro/TSX owners have thought of the FlashPro and see/compare with what mods they have and any issues that may have come up for them that way your not being a test pilot and putting your own vehicle at risk from any significant issues but I would honestly give the FlashPro for TSX a solid 8/10 - I'd have no problem fully recommending it to other Euro owner's if only Hondata could add that final drive correcting functionality because even though cruise control is a minor thing for us as we don't really travel long distances enough to use it, I can imagine it being a major pain in the ass for anyone doing a lot of highway driving or even running a modified gear set.

Sorry for the massive post but hopefully that insight gives you a little further inspiration and faith in the Hondata product and community.

Best of luck with the decisions!

dinoc
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 am

Re: some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by dinoc » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:19 am

Thanks a lot for your feedback.
You have already asked to a question. I forgot to ask, about cruise control and custom gear sets
(I was thinking about putting Type R gear sets) but I guess I won't anymore if the CC is not working.
I have replaced my 4.3 FD with a 4.7 FD but kept the stock gears, so I guess the cruise control should work
(as the speed sensor is on the third gear, and with the 4.7 FD I've matched the TSX gearing).

Something else, do you had any issue with the accelerator pedal (there is another topic on this forum about this) ?

But I'm located in Bucharest and there is no tuner around in my country.
And I was just hoping that a TSX map from Flashpro will work out of the box,
something similar with the TSX ECU reflash Hondata offered in US before Flashpro.
But I guess they don't offer at least a map like that. Why is that ?
You do pay a lot of money for new ECU, adapters and Flashpro - at least they could offer a good map, too.

As I don't know how to tune it myself it looks like I have no choice and put me away of Flashpro.
Euro Honda Accord CL9

Nazul
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:15 am

Re: some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by Nazul » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:18 pm

Every car needs to be tuned differently, so its impossible for hondata to make maps for everyone.
Dont bother doing the upgrades with a basic remap of hondata, your gains won't be optimized.
So if noone does is in your country, search a nearby country where there is a decent tuner then.

dinoc
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 am

Re: some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by dinoc » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:33 pm

But Hondata sold ECU reflash which was a general map and I did not hear people complaining about it.
Why they didn't include that map in the Flashpro calibrations?
Is to expensive to go in another country for tuning (money spent versus gaining) .
Euro Honda Accord CL9

beaugus
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:20 am

Re: some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by beaugus » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:41 pm

The tunes included with FlashPro are ideally considered to be a "basemap" or otherwise a starting point to get you started on the tuning path. We found the TSX mapping to be generally okay air/fuel ratio wise as Hondata factor in quite a lot of safety margin - obviously all for good reason however the differences between that basemap and a custom made tune specific to our Accord Euro was night and day.

We virtually eliminated any knocks tuning to our 95-octane fuel type and optimised the cam angles for improved torque and power, we also improved our fuel economy by roughly 10% which is a long-term bonus because we've managed to squeeze more power out of the K24 whilst using less fuel to do so.

I myself have not experienced any issues with the accelerator, however I am still running the stock throttle body but the Accord Euro / TSX uses an interesting method to control accelerator input. The pedal is cable driven which leads to a box inside the engine bay which then electronically controls the throttle body based on the accelerator input - I assume Honda did this to try and achieve a natural feeling accelerator pedal that felt somewhat "mechanical" but the electronic control side on the throttle body results in improved fuel efficiency due to being much more accurate.

I can only assume that any increase in the throttle body size would ultimately effect the volume of air seen by the MAP sensor and thus cause some undesirable effect with the tune particularly with the throttle table adjustment as when you inspect those values they are virtually 1:1 ratio meaning 10% on the throttle table equates to 10% throttle input @ whatever values the throttle body needs to cater for this amount of accelerator input and if the throttle body is larger than standard maybe too much oxygen is seen by the MAP sensor and therefor creating acceleration difficulties.

This would be my best guess however I'm not a tuner by any means but I've spent a fair amount of time studying FlashPro but I've decided to leave the tuning to people I trust most and who do that sort of thing for a living.

Considering your location and circumstance I'm in a similar position as I live in the Country here in Australia with absolutely no tuning shops or dyno's near by and so my only option was to consider having my tune done across the internet.

My best recommendation to you would be to check out these guys here at http://www.e-tunez.com/tuning-services , I've dealt with the tuner Steve (BV1) and he's put together quite a few tunes for our cars with great results, they offer a really great service and happy to discuss tuning options and always happy to answer questions etc.

There are other tuners out there who charge varying prices but honestly do some background research on them (usually by username on forums etc) because in the end you'll want somebody you can trust and email any time for any reason for peace of mind.

dinoc
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 am

Re: some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by dinoc » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:17 am

Yes this what I'm looking for if there is a way to tune my car remotely.
I will contact the guys from the link you gave me.
Thanks a lot for your detailed input!

If you guys know others who do e-tuning please let me know.
Euro Honda Accord CL9

dinoc
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 am

Re: some questions for Euro CL9 users

Post by dinoc » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:49 am

I'm wondering why the cruise control is not working for you with Flashpro?
Because someone else with a Euro CL9 from UK said the CC works for him with Flashpro.

Did you try to adjust the speedo with Flashpro after re flashing a TSX basemap?
Euro Honda Accord CL9

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