MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

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bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

Hello everyone,

The 9th gen civic R18's do not have the same option to disable the MAF sensor under the fuel parameters as the 8th gen R18's. This creates problems in boosted applications such as mine where a turbocharger can easily exceed the limits of the factory MAF even in a larger pipe or housing. The ecu will put the car into limp mode which is about 3,500 rpm.

The alternative right now is to remove the MAF and use a IAT in place of it. To do this you will be using the red yellow, and green yellow wires. The next hurdle is the P050a Cold Start Idle Air Control System Performance Problem. Again, the 8th gen Civic R18's have the option to disable this code in the misc parameters of the calibration.

I would like to see an update for this issue so I can enjoy the car, please help Hondata Team.
bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

If anyone wants to see the error codes or knows how to circumvent them let me know. Here are some quick screenshots attached for reference from flashpro manager.
Attachments
Misc settings 2006 Civic R18 8th gen
Misc settings 2006 Civic R18 8th gen
Screenshot (48).png (588.1 KiB) Viewed 5583 times
Fuel Parameters 2012 Civic R18 9th gen
Fuel Parameters 2012 Civic R18 9th gen
Screenshot (44).png (587.16 KiB) Viewed 5583 times
Misc Settings 2012 Civic R18 9th gen
Misc Settings 2012 Civic R18 9th gen
Screenshot (45).png (574.13 KiB) Viewed 5583 times
Fuel Parapeters 2006 Civic R18 8th gen
Fuel Parapeters 2006 Civic R18 8th gen
Screenshot (46).png (587.77 KiB) Viewed 5583 times
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Spunkster
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Location: Hondata

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by Spunkster »

You cannot disable the AFM, but you can still tune via MAP. You must leave the AFM connected and in the flow of air.
bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

If the AFM left in the intake or charge pipe and connected it will trigger a limp mode condition at 3,500rpm. I have done extensive testing with it connected and with it disconnected since 2016 when I first turbocharged the car. Back then it was not an issue because of the relatively low boost pressure. I have been able to run the engine happy at 27 psi of boost pressure with a two wire IAT in place of the MAF. This problem makes it very annoying to tune the car on the dyno because any time you make adjustments and re-flash the ecu you must remember to set the MAF voltage to 0.00V, otherwise you will see the limp mode condition. The P050a does not interfere with the operation of the engine after being set to 0.00V but it is a pain to look at. After running the car again after it has cooled down it never ceases to return. I have spoke with a few of my friends who drive 8th gen R18's and they do not have these issues because they are enabled by flashpro to keep the MAF while running airflow through it that would otherwise cause a limp mode condition.

I apologize for the late reply.
bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

If you need some proof here is a datalog from when my tuner and I did went for a quick road test. Do not worry about the afr readings as the stock sensors do not work properly below about 0.90 lambda. We ended up running out of fuel since the car was running E85 and only had "deatschWerks 1000cc injectors", but really they are closer to 920cc injectors if you refer to the Haltech Characterization data. Using a Wideband 0-5v analog signal through the secondary ECT sensor does the trick to feed the ecu the proper data.We did not have one feeding the ecu at this particular Datalog but for anyone else that plans to do that please keep in mind you will need a radiator fan controller after doing so. If anyone needs a screenshots of the codes on Flashpro Manager I will happily provide them too. Thanks everyone.
Attachments
Driven steet mod datalog.fpdl
(15.14 KiB) Downloaded 104 times
bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

Spunkster,

Are you saying it is not possible to remove the MAF and run the car correctly or that it should not be done? If it is not possible to run the engine with the MAF absent without trade offs such as the P050a then how would you correct the issue? I have no experience with aftermarket MAF sensors but a quick google search will pull up MAF sensors for Fords or GM that claim they will support "800+ whp in a 3 inch MAF tube". I will need to do the math to get real numbers before I really know what it will support as far as my engine goes of course. They also might be a little expensive but I am willing to experiment. All I am asking for now is if you or anyone has experience with rescaling these types of sensors and if this could be a viable solution. I pulled up the MAF tuning info in the help contents of flashpro and looked into a forum and it seems pretty straight forward. I just don't have any way to get stock engine data which is a shame. I do not even know if these sensors are compatible with my ecu yet but the 0-5v signal ones look promising. I will have to call and solicit for more information next Monday and whatever I find out will be here soon. Any suggestions or insight until then are appreciated.
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Spunkster
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Location: Hondata

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by Spunkster »

You may be able to use a larger MAF housing with the OEM sensor, and you will have to retune the AFM table.
bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

Here is a datalog that I took with the MAF in a 3" housing using a blow through style configuration on my current turbo setup. On this setup I did not retune the MAF so all the MAF values were left alone. It maxed out at 1:18 during the datalog. How large of a pipe would I need to satisfy this stock sensor? Keep in mind at 5psi the car made 200whp and then made 427 at 27psi. The cylinder head ports and camshaft are currently stock but they may not be in the future. Ill be in big trouble later if the sensor wont read up to the 700whp range.

I have another datalog from a few years ago on a different turbo setup doing a draw through style setup and it pulls about the same voltage in the same 3" housing. That old seteup was tuned by Vitviper when the car was still automatic transmission and was finished around November of 2017. The car only ran 9psi at that time. Check out 18:55 on datalog 23.
Attachments
datalog0023.fpdl
(3.01 MiB) Downloaded 104 times
10.5 pounds max for MAF 8-2-20.fpdl
(212.91 KiB) Downloaded 109 times
bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

Update,

I emailed a company called Pmas and inquired about any potential sensors that could fit the bill for my application. I sent them a picture of a wiring schematic diagram I took during the time I used to work for a Honda dealer as well as the wire pinout and no good news yet. They only asked which pinout to use off the diagram and that was it. When I have news ill post it here for everyone.
bojack446
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Re: MAF Sensor 2012+ Civic R18

Post by bojack446 »

No news on MAF progress and it is the end of the year. The car is getting new everything as far as the manifold and charge pipes are concerned. A sidewinder will suit the R nicely from what I have found in our niche community. I will still be on the road running no MAF and making excellent power to match the drivability but the check engine light is here to stay. Sorry for anyone with a 9th gen single cam, your options are iat with a side of check engine lights right now. Prove me wrong if you can.

Merry Christmas Everyone

If anyone wants to shoot the shit with the platform just dm me on insta, Sour_cr3am
it will definitely yield a quicker response than asking here
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