10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2011 Americas Civic Si
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07siiii
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10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

2007 Civic Si. It's 100% stock mechanically.

I'm getting around 10* of timing pulled when going WOT, then shifting then WOT again. The ignition timing is being pulled and isn't showing knock retard, or knock count. But the ignition timing is clearly going from 31 where it should be on the table, to 21.

It only seems to happen when going WOT from one gear to another (first pull is good, then 10* of ignition is pulled when shifting to the next gear and going WOT).

You can see it several times in this log. At 7:07, 7:09, 9:10, 9:13.

Not sure if this is normal hondata ecu behavior when shifting gears, or something I should be concerned about, or able to tune out. 10* seems like a lot of timing to pull.



Thanks!
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datalog0018.fpdl
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Hondata
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by Hondata »

VSA
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07siiii
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

thanks for the quick reply.

I never even considered VSA because didn't realize my car has it.

I thought my car had zero traction control and zero stability control. It doesn't have a button for it anywhere in the interior, and clearly doesn't have traction control. The car does feel like it has a really good LSD tho.

Is there anyway to confirm thru flashpro that the VSA is activating? Or that there even is VSA in the first place?

Is there a way to disable VSA?

Thanks again.
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by Hondata »

You can disable VSA in the calibration. In the US 07+ vehicles had VSA; I don't know about Canada.
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07siiii
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

So the car 100% does not have traction control.

So I changed the "Traction Control" settings in calibration. "None" was already selected, but I changed the table values to 0* timing retard (in traction control table) anyways. The issue has not changed

I am 100% sure the car does not have traction control. It has no problem spinning the tires constantly, even upto 3rd gear. There is no button in the interior (just a blank plate where it would be). There is not traction control light on the dash that even exists (lighting up the whole dash).

I checked the vin online and the car is a 2007. My buddie has a 2007 Fit and it also doesnt have traction control. I assume the 2007+ only got traction control in USA, I am in Canada, and the car is Canadian.

Any guesses as to why im getting 10* of timing pulled while going thru gears at WOT, but not in the gear im starting in? (pulling WOT in 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th will only pull timing in 3rd and 4th. Doing this but starting in 3rd, will result in timing only being pulled in 4th and 5th).


I'm not actually flat foot shifting btw, just WOT while in gear. I checked the VTEC thinking that it might be going back to the low cam ignition table, but VTEC seems to be on the whole time.
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by Hondata »

Traction control is not the same as VSA. I suggest you disable VSA in the calibration.
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07siiii
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

I thought VSA was traction control because of all the ‘how to disable’ vids online, where they just press the traction control button.

Now I understand, it’s stability control.

Unchecked VSA under misc. (it was on)

Still getting the same thing. Pulling 10* of timing after shifting, no knock retard, no knock count.

Any guesses? Thanks a bunch btw
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by Hondata »

Set the tip in trims by gear to all -100%. Zero out the traction control ignition retard ignition values.

I'm guessing it is knock retard from the way you are power shifting.
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07siiii
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

That was it!

Thanks a ton! Will post a new log of it when I get home, just for anyone else that reads this.

Ignition timing is now bang on with the tables the whole time.

There’s zero knock count/retard still as well. I assume it’s safe to leave it like this, all at -100% ?

I’m pretty sure I understand how it works. Looks like it’s a percentage of retard applied from the knock table, during tip in. 0% being full retard, and -100% being no retard.

Thanks again!
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by Hondata »

Which of the two changes fixed it? Tip in or traction control?
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

the -100% for all gears, tip-in ignition retard trim, fixed the issue

1. I zero'd the traction control, was still pulling timing
2. I disabled VSA, was still pulling timing
3. I set 0-6 tip in ignition retard trim to -100%, no longer pulled timing

I kept the previous settings as I tried the newer changes. Currently the TC is 0*, VSA is disabled, and tip in retard is -100% for all.

I'm guessing that the traction control settings (1) didn't do anything at all, as the car doesn't have traction control. But I was still able to change the table and did so anyways. I can tell you that before I changed the table, it was never pulling timing while spinning the tires for a whole gear (just had a whole winter of tire spinning and data logging). If it was on this whole time, it wasn't doing anything. Could easily spin all of first, all of second, and a bit of third if there's just a tiny bit of rain on the road. (car is dead stock and has no torque)
07siiii
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

log and calibration
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OG07siii.SD.Rev14 (Blended) (Sport Pedal) (zero TC VSA OFF -100TIPIN).fpcal
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by Hondata »

Thanks. So it is a delayed tip in retard after shifting.
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Re: 10* of timing being pulled when after shifting WOT

Post by 07siiii »

Yeah seems like it.

Not sure exactly what the parameters are to trigger it tho. Basically going from WOT from one gear to WOT in the next gear would trigger it, even at low rpm and high rpm. Never happened when going WOT while already in gear tho, only after shifting. Never saw it happen during normal driving or toe to heel shifting, or rev matching downshifts. Must have something to do with load.

Setting -100% in the whole table totally fixed it tho.

Car seems to have a bit more dig when pounding gears now. I guess I was losing like 5-10 hp for a split second when it was pulling 10*
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