Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

FlashPro questions & answers specific to the 2006-2011 Americas Civic Si
mucter
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Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by mucter » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:04 am

This "feature" of the stock ecu logic is killing the drivability on my supercharged Si. Can we please get rid of this thing once and for all?

Every time I shift it goes to -10 STRIM statically for a random amount of time while it decides to stay in Fuel Status 1 and my AF goes stupid lean, the motor bucks, and then finally goes back to Closed loop and things go back to normal. It will sit in fuel status 1 for over 3 seconds while I'm attempting to accelerate after a shift, all the while I'm enjoying misfire city.

Could we just fix the ECU logic to not use Fuel Status 1 at all after the car is..... no longer cold??? Just go back to closed loop instead. So we'd have status 2 while driving normal, and status 4 while at WOT or in overrun. We don't need status 1 unless the car is actually cold or has just been started up and the O2 sensor isn't reading.

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by Hondata » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:36 am

Can you email me a datalog? I'm assuming you're using the race calibration?
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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by mucter » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:45 am

Log emailed. Yes race, and I attached it as well. Thanks for looking into this for me.

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by VitViper » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:52 pm

I shall second this. This logic has been a royal pain since the inception of FlashPro, usually it's minor and I am able to fix it with some latency or low load fuel adjustment, however that isn't the case with every vehicle -- the further from stock you go the more of an issue it can become. Check out the attached log, this is a built K24 I tuned recently, and for the life of me I could not remove the +19% strim during fuel status 1.

Note how the fueling and fuel trims aside from that are perfect. I went full circle to try and fix it -- we checked for vac leaks, etc, the hardware was sound. I went through and tried all the fueling tricks I could -- latency had no effect on it, low load fueling adjustments just made the motor run very rich. Even tried adjusting the cranking fuel table, ECT/IAT fuel comp tables (particularly during actual cold running in case this fuel status 1 strim was a "learned" value from when the motor was cold). Nothing made a dent in it... just sits there with +19 strim during fuel status 1.
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amoore.fpdl
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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by Hondata » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:24 pm

Is there a reason why you don't use the Civic Si calibration rather than the Race calibration for vehicles which you tune?
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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by mucter » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:38 pm

I have stuck to the race cal as for as far as I know, the AFM cals still have rev hang issues? You haven't exposed the overrun fuel cut delay yet so I can't be sure. Didn't want to go through all the hassle of trying to fix up an AFM cal for my supercharger setup and then have that issue. Have you made a change to that logic on the AFM side and just not exposed the table?

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by Hondata » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:41 am

I've used the non race calibration for 8 months, and it does run better than the race calibration (seems to have better ignition control when cold). Will add the rev hang table shortly and then you can try it out.
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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by VitViper » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:13 pm

To add to what Jay said about the race cal -- the rev hang is the big one (customers complain).

But to add a few more not available in the Civic Si cals:
- No gear selection to fix cruise control/gear calculator
- No fuel overrun delay (Jay mentioned this)
- No boost cut (kind of important on turbo cars)
- Can't disable 2nd ECT sensor (kind of a must once we get the traction control out there)
- The default breakpoints suck (0/10/20/30/40 instead of 0/15/30/40/50), especially when tuning S/C, n/a cars, and some turbo cars. You get to 40 cam, tune it... then get to 50 and... aaannd tuning the 40 cam was pointless, makes for a weird transition in fueling when the cam phases past 40 on it's way to 50 during throttle off/on.

I recall you mentioned the push to go to using just the Civic Si calibration instead of the Race cal, and I support this, but the two need to be equal in features for it to be realistic... Unless the idea is to keep vehicles with minor mods (bolt ons) on the Civic Si cal and the guys with more advanced mods (turbo, s/c) to stick with Race cals... I'd prefer to avoid that kind of fragmentation.

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by Hondata » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:58 am

- No gear selection to fix cruise control/gear calculator
Already has been added.
- No fuel overrun delay (Jay mentioned this)
Already has been added.
- No boost cut (kind of important on turbo cars)
Added.
- Can't disable 2nd ECT sensor (kind of a must once we get the traction control out there)
Added.
- The default breakpoints suck (0/10/20/30/40 instead of 0/15/30/40/50), especially when tuning S/C, n/a cars, and some turbo cars. You get to 40 cam, tune it... then get to 50 and... aaannd tuning the 40 cam was pointless, makes for a weird transition in fueling when the cam phases past 40 on it's way to 50 during throttle off/on.
Added. Just be careful when changing the cam angle index as it affects the fuel, ignition & knock tables.

As far as converting from a race calibration to normal calibration, all the tables can be cut & pasted except for the fuel tables. They work a little differently so will run leaner in the RBB/normal calibration by 5-20%.

Download link should be ready in a couple of hours. No more changes - I need to prepare for the TC release.
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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by nunoctr » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:06 pm

Hondata, if you can, please make this changes to the fn2 calibrations also.

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by mucter » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:36 pm

From what I'm seeing in the test build, the RSP cals now have the gearing fix, the boost cut, the overrun delay and 2nd ect sensor disable. Not seeing the cam indice options, not sure if it was just overlooked on the RSP cals.

Everything looks good for RRB, hope to test it out this weekend.

Also Derek, I know this isn't a "right now" thing as I respect that you definitely need to get the traction control out the door... but is it on your list to implement the "Minimum pressure for speed/density" box for the Si like you have it on the 09 TSX? I would LOVE that feature.

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by nunoctr » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:31 pm

Yes the rsp only need the cam indice. I also think that the fuel overrun delay is not perfect in the "hybrid" cals, even with the 0 cam angle fuel tuned as well as possible and higher numbers in the fuel overrun delay the car gives a litle jerk off the throttle in lower gears that is not there in afm or race cals.

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by Hondata » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:28 pm

More noticeable when cold?
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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by mucter » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:21 am

So I gave the AFM cal a shot on my CTe SC'd car tonight. Took me a while to put together the proper tables for the proper cam indices, but some careful planning/prep/math paid off.

Some notes:

Car started fine on the first try with only minimal STRIM issues that I was able to quickly fix to make normal driving 100% safe.

I did zero tuning against the AFM, so it is completely not calibrated at all for the housing it is in (3").

Boost is fine. I cranked up my boost control to force it down to 4 psi at max for safety while testing this.

It seems that the ECU really wants to stay in closed loop on the low cam and target 14:1 even at 3 psi .... lol. I'm going to tweak the WOT lambda tables (11.69 under boost) to see if that will force the ECU into open loop on the low cam like it does on the MAP based logic.

Rev hang is still very prevalent. Is there still another piece of the logic there that you changed on the MAP cals that we can't tweak?

If I drop the overrun delay numbers lower than what you have in the MAP cals, it helps the rev hang a bit, but in turn makes light throttle cruise oscillate the injectors on/off making the car very jerky in a residential area going 25mph in 3rd gear.

I've attached my very very very rough cal and a log showing some rev hang and the oscillation (at the end) I am talking about.
Attachments
datalog-2.0.4-1.fpdl
datalog
(595.08 KiB) Downloaded 200 times
2.0.4.fpcal
calibration
(20.2 KiB) Downloaded 181 times

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Re: Disable Open-Cold static STRIM

Post by nunoctr » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:55 am

Hondata wrote:More noticeable when cold?
yes, it's a litle more noticeable at cold but it's allways there. After tuning all fuel cam angles, I have live tuned the fuel overrun tables (changing up or down the numbers) and it's allways a litle more jerk than the AFM cal.

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