2008 Si Sedan map suggestions please and thank you

[afauser]

Yes. Small world! Makes me wonder if I know them hah Probably not though... I would like to run higher octane fuel but fuel cost is high enough as it is. Did a drive this morning on my way to work. Its a bit less than 20 minutes.

[afauser]

File didnt attach on that last post. Oops.

[EFICU]

Looking better. I think we're on the right track now. The elevation will be our limiting factor, but we will get it as good as we can for you. On your WOT pulls in third, try to get it down to 2500 rpms before you go WOT if possible. That way I can tune the areas down low to make sure you don't get any knock and get the fueling good. It's tough getting it down that low on the street, so as close as possible is great.

Did you happen to port match the inlet of the intake manifold when you did the J35?

Here is the next one for you. We're moving onto the 30" cam angle now. This one should be stronger in the mid range and sort of fall off up near redline.

afauser.SD.Rev04 (30 Cam).fpcal

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[afauser]

I have a good little lap that I can do so getting to 2500 shouldn't be too much of an issue as long as no one is in front of me. Start catching up quite quickly further into the WOT trip. :0)

Unfortunately I have not port matched it yet. I know it needs to be done and I should have done it before venturing into this. I will try and get it done soon. Home life is busy with a wife and 2 kids and the car being my daily. If we need to pause this for now I understand. I'll try and get it done this week.

Thank you

[EFICU]

You don’t have to get it port matched right away, I was just curious. It makes a small difference, but nothing you would need to stress about. We can continue on, then whenever you do down the road we can clean it up if needed. Though the ECU should adjust for the small increase in flow.

When you do it, you might snag a 72mm gasket from K-tuned to use as a stencil to port to. Then you could upgrade to the K-tuned 72mm down the road if you wanted to. Tuning by Nick there in Canada shows the comparison of all the popular throttle bodies on his YouTube channel if you want to check it out https://youtu.be/UL8PMXJ7lZM. I’ve talked with him a few times and he is a very nice guy and knows his stuff. This series of videos show how much power the swap is worth, including your J35.

[afauser]

I spent some time at the end of the day and ported the intake so I got that out of the way. I had to break up the drive home unfortunately. I had to make a stop. I could feel what you were saying about it dropping off. Hope these logs work out for you. Thank you

I have a busy evening ahead of me so I will have to check out that you tube link later

[afauser]

As far as the gasket goes for the TB I was able to make my own. Used a HPDE material. I sized it as if the intake was already ported. I haven't had any issues with it and I've been using it for a number of months now. It was kind of off because it has to cover an unused IAC port on the bottom of the flange.

[EFICU]

That was fast on the port job...

Looks pretty good. Made quite a few fueling adjustments at idle and throughout all areas. Had some knock creep up on that one, so I pulled some ignition as well.

Here is the next one. This will be the last of the locked cam angle revisions. This one will be on the 40* cam. Same type of datalog on this one. It might feel really sluggish with this one, the 40* cam angle will most likely run out of breath based on your altitude and mods. So don't get too discouraged on this one if it feels sluggish. After this one, we blend it all out and work to fine tune everything.

afauser.SD.Rev05 (40 Cam).fpcal

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[afauser]

The porting went surprisingly well. The intake came off and went back together with no issues. I haven't had a chance to look at the last logs yet. Busy day at work and the evening. I will take a peek at them tomorrow to see what you mentioned. I may not fully understand it right now but it still interests me to see it and try and figure out what you are adjusting :0) Thanks

[EFICU]

That's good. Yeah you would be able to see it a lot better with a tune at sea level as your car falls off above 4600 on the low cam because of the altitude. On the high cam though, you will notice the arc of the fuel curve and how it resembles a dyno chart power curve to some extent. Where ever it wants more fuel is generally where it is making more power. Hence why it leans out every time we move up in cam angle, as each cam angle increase wants more fuel, until the 40* cam angle where I am guessing yours will demand less fuel. Perhaps in the mid range it will want more fuel, but after 5500 it will really begin to go rich up to redline. Which is why too much cam angle is just as bad as not enough. Every car likes it's own cam angle map, though you can use somewhat general rule of thumb as a ballpark. Which is why tuning each cam angle is so important, it gives you the ability to build a pretty good cam angle map without the help of a dyno. If you get a tune that doesn't tune each cam angle individually, you are getting a one size fits all deal, which I hate doing. I generally reserve that for guys in a hurry, or who are adding parts in the near future and redoing it will be necessary anyways.

We'll see how it looks on this next one. Then we'll try to blend everything out and see how it runs.

[afauser]

Drive got broke up this morning. Had to take a different route and traffic at 7:30am-8 was a bit much on the route I was on. Did manage to do a 3rd pull though.

Yes I do see what you mean about the fuel curve resembling a dyno graph. I can only imagine how many hours you have spent learning how to tune. Reading graphs. Knowing what to change and why and how it will affect the operation.

I did start to watch the Tuning By Nick videos. I like how he just lays it all out there and slowly goes through it. Thank you for sharing that.

[EFICU]

No problem. As long as they are in a good length of time that's all that matters. The 5-8 minute datalogs just don't give us enough average data to make accurate changes for.

Yeah I will send you a tune file for a sea level car with good mods on it and you will see the shape of the dyno chart more. Especially on 9th gens, they tend to fall off a lot up top. The 8th gens carry out the cam angle with more rotation for longer in the rpm range. There is a lot of time learning and seeing trends. The more you do, the more you see. Like your car, I could tell either the air filter had a blockage or you were in higher altitude based on the columns you run on. Like a guy I helped on here last week. His tuner said his fuel pump has a leaking o-ring causing a lean condition. I discussed it with him and told him it must be the primary o2 sensor failing and it causes the AFR reading to be dead flat, like impossibly flat. The guy ordered a new sensor and the AFR immediately went rich because his tuner had been adding fuel and adding fuel trying to get rid of the lean condition. I worked with a guy last year who had a similar issue, and the same fix. So as I mention, the more you see the more you know, just like anything else in life. If you get interested in tuning or working on yours when you get new mods, just don't psych yourself out. It is very simple, at least the fuel and ignition adjustment. It's the settings in the background that are adjusted which take time and knowledge to make right. Just don't let it psych you out though.

Nick is a great guy and I refer a lot of people to him up there in Canada. If you are wanting to get dyno tuned, I would drive a considerable distance to get to him. I've bounced a few questions off him and he was always been polite and responsive to me. Which is not the norm' for the tuning industry in general.

Okay, so here is the first of the blended files. I have the cam angle map loosely designed. I am going to put vtec at 5400 on this first file to try to find the VTEC engagement point that is best. This will help me see the low cam and high cam data to see what rpm it should be happiest. Once I see that, we will go from there. See what you think, it will be weird with VTEC so high in the rpm range, so just keep that in mind. In the next one, it will be much lower, probably in the 4600 rpm range give or take.

afauser.SD.Rev06 (Blended)(Vtec5400).fpcal

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[afauser]

Even that seems fishy to me-the leaking o-ring on a fuel pump. Doesn't even sound right. Anything is possible but just seems weird. But as you said the more you do and see the more you know. So it makes sense if you were looking at a graph for the AF and it seemed out to lunch.

I remember doing some training over the years looking at sensors and how they should respond and what a good one looks like but I rarely ever use those "skills" now. A fair bit of what we do now is just test wiring/components and replace if required.

As I'm writing this I am watching Nick do the dyno pulls. It's interesting for sure. J35 is close to the 72mm and as far as the cost I am ok with the J35. I paid around $30 for it and while on that I paid $67 for the TSX cams. So for $100 total I can't complain. With the increased volume coming in I was a bit worried about not having the flow out the back.

I would be up for getting Nick to dyno my car but he is about 2,300 miles away from me. 2-3 days of driving. Ouch! I have been out of the Honda tuning for quite some time then decided to get back into it a bit in August when I picked up this Si. I am not sure if there is anyone local to me that has a dyno and would be capable of tuning. As I was saying earlier I have been reading your posts and others and it seems like it would be easy to muck up something if it not done correctly.

[afauser]

My computer is giving me some grief tonight. Got my datalogs mixed up.

I think I have them sorted out now.

[EFICU]

Yeah it was frustrating because he has replaced the o-ring 5 times because of the tuners confidence that the o-ring was the problem. I felt bad for him, though not a massive undertaking to replace the o-ring, it still sucks. Either way I was just happy to get him moving forward again. That's where the fun is out in helping guys on here.

Testing the sensors is the proper way as you say. Admittedly the guy mentioned he had a cheap sensor from Amazon. I encouraged him to get a factory sensor so that it should work properly, which he did. His car is turbo too, even more reason to use good sensors so you are working with the right equipment.

I was shocked at the results of Nick's test myself. From my experience, the K-Tuned TB causes the injectors to max out on FBO cars. To see it only gained a few HP was a little surprising based on that. As Nick mentions though, the added drivability and throttle response isn't measured on the dyno. which ultimately is our goal of all this. Based on his test, I think you did good too. Not a bad price to be in it for cams and TB.

If he's that far then it may not be ideal, unless you and the family want to take a road trip. Haha. There really isn't a whole lot you can do to a bolt on Si without being absolutely careless. A lot can go wrong for a short period of time and not hurt anything, it's the long term driving on a poor tune that can hurt stuff. Even sort of careless doesn't hurt anything, it just isn't right or ideal. Like on yours, if you click through the fuel tables, every angle is different because we tuned them all. Except the 45* which I copy and pasted the 40* into, your car wouldn't take advantage of the 45* table with your mods, when you do exhaust mods you might, but would need a new tune anyways. I have come across a lot of cars though which are “tuned” and all the high cam tables are the same. There is no way the same fueling for all angles will be the same. Therefore, it will be rich or lean somewhere and not hitting our desired AFR. It just comes down to doing it right, as opposed to just getting something close.

So that datalog looked really good. I made a couple part throttle fueling changes, for the WOT, I made some changes for the fueling under vtec to 5400 which need only some small adjustments. From 5600 to redline though it was dead on, which is great! In this one, I am putting vtec at 3800. I want to look at the fueling on the high cam down low there to see a possible vtec engagement point. You car really wants a lot of fuel around 3800 on the low cam, compared to most cars like yours around 4600. If it really does want that much fuel there, and onto the high cam there, we might try vtec down low. See what you think, try to notice if the crossover at 3800 feels strong or not. Meaning it pulls fairly strong up to vtec and continues to get stronger when vtec kicks. What we want to avoid is any type of bogging feel. We had a little knock in cylinder 2 only, so I made a small adjustment to reinspect that in this one. Feel free to make a few third gear pulls if you want, if you don't like driving it hard you can keep it to one pull, other than you can drive it however you want for the datalog.

afauser.SD.Rev07.1 (Blended)(Cyl2)(Vtec3800).fpcal

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