New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Calibrations for FlashPro Manager - Use all calibrations at your own risk (dyno tuning recommended)

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RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

Hello everyone, like the title states I am new to the tuning world and looking for a decent map to run on my 07 Si. The car is stock but I'm looking to "wake it up' so to say. I tried both the MAF basemap and the MAP basemap to see which was better and the car runs better with the MAP based map but honestly doesn't feel any different than the factory map. I've read that others have loaded maps that changed the driveability of the vehicle and made it a little better and I guess that's what I'm looking for. I've seen alot about the Mucter's tune and I guess that's kinda what I'm looking for. I did some datalogs the other evening then reviewed the data, AFRs were around high 13s to low 14s under WOT and normal driving, noticed high knock counts but not sure if it's legit or due to road conditions and my hasport mount. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Attachments
stock tuned datalog 2.fpdl
(38.38 KiB) Downloaded 64 times
stock MAP 4.fpdl
(428.45 KiB) Downloaded 69 times
stock tune MAP 3.fpdl
(375.85 KiB) Downloaded 52 times
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by EFICU »

The main issue you're having is your primary o2 sensor is failing. Your WOT fueling is dead flat at 14.26-14.33, which means the primary o2 sensor has failed for reading WOT fueling and needs to be replaced. The knock you have is very excessive, that needs to be adjusted immediately. What octane fuel are you running.

And as far as Mucter's tune, you'd have to look around on the forums if that's what you want.
RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

Hmm that’s odd. I’ve never thrown an O2 code so I would’ve never thought that was an issue. I’m running 93 as far as fuel. Car is completely stock other than K&N drop in filter. Could it be possible that since I loaded a one of the basemaps from the list of choices that maybe it has the O2 disabled or something. I believe the one I loaded said FD2 based compared to FG2/FA5. Should I just revert back to my stock calibration and do some logs to see what changes? I’m new to FlashPro so still trying to figure out everything. I can also post another log I did with a different calibration just to show some different numbers. I was checking the knock counts and saw they were very high but it didn’t look like it was pulling any timing from what I saw or maybe I’m looking at the wrong data. I’ve seen you helping other users so any info you may have I’m all ears!
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by EFICU »

Yeah it doesn't throw a code because it's not reading incredibly lean, or past the threshold AFR that throws a lean code. It's easy to see when you look at how flat the AFR is in your datalog, especially through your multi gear pulls, there is no way the AFR can be that flat and through multiple gears. There are two other guys on here right now with the same issue, and you're probably the 11th one I have seen over the last couple years.

If the primary o2 sensor was turned off you would have a lot more issues.

These cars are teenagers now, so they will begin to have certain failures and other issues. You can try to swap to a different calibration if you want to, I would only make a third gear from from 3000-6000 rpms to check. Since the sensor isn't working, you don't really know what the AFR is. Based on your injector duty % it should be fine, but we don't really know since the sensor isn't reading WOT fueling properly.

As far as knock, even if it's not retarding ignition, that doesn't mean it isn't knocking. It looks like your other thread has disappeared so I can't download your calibration again, but your knock control system is either compromised or otherwise has an issue. You have 271 knock count, but your knock control value is 0. With that much knock it should be 100+ for knock control reading. It appears as though the calibration you have is running a modified knock control system to bypass it completely, which isn't good. If you want to repost your calibration then I could tell for sure, but it should be very high if it was working properly, definitely not 0. So post your calibration in here so I can look at it.
RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

I gotcha, thanks for the clarification on that. When I get off work I will send you all the datalogs I’ve done and both calibrations I’ve used. I will switch it back to the stock calibration as well and run a datalog on that to see what that says as well. I noticed that the knock count was especially high in cylinder 2 which if I read correctly is the one closest to the knock sensor so that could be why it’s higher in count compared to the others, but everything aside 387 total counts has me a little worried. I think in the other calibration I used that had the MAF enabled the AFRs varied a little more but I could be wrong. I will have to go back and look at the data but as I stated I will send that information once I’m free from work. Appreciate your help! Is it cool to PM you?
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by EFICU »

Yeah the knock sensor is closest to the #2 cylinder. Since you are mostly stock, you want to treat the knock as legit and not move to deeming it false knock right away. I see a lot of guys do that before addressing the knock properly. I didn't look in depth too much into the ignition delivered and intake temps, but when your knock was rising high in vtec I saw probably 3-5* more ignition than I am comfortable with even with 93 octane. So I would focus on the ignition being the cause of the knock before taking a different path. Also, had the calibration had a proper knock retard strategy, the ECU would have pulling perhaps 5* of ignition to stop that knock. You got a quick lesson in why the knock control strategy is so important and why it needs to be enabled in the calibration. I see a lot of tunes with it bypassed, for various reasons, but this is what can happen. Again I don't know it is bypassed, but there is really no other way to get a 0 knock control value with that much knock. It should be 100+.

The MAF calibration might have had varying AFRs in part throttle and below say 5000 on WOT. Once it gets up in RPM, again I would have to look at your datalog specifically, but the sensor no longer reads properly and goes dead flat. When it goes dead flat, the sensor is simply not reading. I can post a screenshot if you would like to see a comparison, but dead flat isn't possible. With as fast as the FlashPro samples, to keep an AFR dead flat at 14.33 for three gears is just not possible. If I hadn't seen the problem as many times as I have I wouldn't be so sure. I went ahead and made a couple screenshots to show you. Below, the first screenshot is your AFR, notice how the blue line is dead flat? Below it is a screenshot of an AFR I am working on with another customer right now, not perfect but it is between 12.6 and 12.8 throughout, and you can see the curve and jittery nature to the blue line? When they fail, they go dead flat like yours in thr first screenshot.
Rusty AFR.JPG
Rusty AFR.JPG (75.41 KiB) Viewed 1020 times
Comparison AFR.JPG
Comparison AFR.JPG (89.09 KiB) Viewed 1020 times
As you can see, any tuner would love to get it dead flat by your datalog, but it isn't really possible. Especially a basemap with no specific tuning to your car.

Yeah you can PM if you want. I don't know how many posts you have to have before you can.
RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

Did some datalogs on the way home from work after reverting the ECU back to Stock, these look better? Still seem like I'm having issues with the O2?
Attachments
factory dlog3.fpdl
(491.99 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
factory dlog2.fpdl
(1.98 MiB) Downloaded 55 times
factory dlog1.fpdl
(164.38 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by EFICU »

Yeah you're still having the same issue. Your AFR is dead flat in the higher rev range, which is impossible between two calibrations.

Your knock issue is gone as well, and the knock control system is working again as it's supposed to. Can you post the calibration you were driving on, I am curious why and how it was bypassed, along with the ignition tables.

If you want to triple check, I can give you my basemap for stock 8th gens and see how the WOT fueling looks with that. It would still need some adjustments and we can discuss tuning options later. But that would give you a better idea for sure that the sensor has failed, although I'm 99.9% sure has.
RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

Hope this is the information you needed. I'm willing to try the calibration you have, I want to take care of the issue I'm having since I know it will affect me come time to tune and I like to take care of an issue before it causes other issues!
Attachments
knock ignition limit low.jpg
knock ignition limit low.jpg (119.14 KiB) Viewed 1012 times
knock ignition limit high.jpg
knock ignition limit high.jpg (119.76 KiB) Viewed 1012 times
ignition low.jpg
ignition low.jpg (141.64 KiB) Viewed 1012 times
ignition high.jpg
ignition high.jpg (133.87 KiB) Viewed 1012 times
Calibration 1.jpg
Calibration 1.jpg (97.96 KiB) Viewed 1012 times
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by EFICU »

I see, yeah the values in the knock ignition limit (KIL) tables are very high, which bypasses the knock control and won't allow it to introduce knock retard based on knock count. So that makes sense. AS you mentioned, probably because it's a euro calibration.

The ignition tables are more than I am comfortable with as well, so that makes sense too. The combo of the two appear to be your issue with knock which is good. Now we just need to focus on the o2 sensor.

Here is a base calibration for you. Take it for a quick 10-20 minute drive on this one, and do one WOT pull in third gear from 3000-7000 rpms so we can look at the WOT fueling. This will tell is definitively whether the o2 sensor has failed or not.
RustyDaggers.Hybrid.Rev01 (O2 Sensor Test).fpcal
(23.11 KiB) Downloaded 66 times
RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

Okay thanks I just loaded the calibration you sent me to the Flashpro so gonna test it out here shortly.
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by EFICU »

Sounds good. We'll see how it looks.
RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

Just did the test run and here are the results. Looks like I'm gonna be ordering an O2 sensor, I definitely see what you're saying with how flat it is all the way across.
Attachments
EFI Cal dlog2.fpdl
(156.02 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
EFI Cal dlog1.fpdl
(142.88 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
EFI Cal 3rd WOT.fpdl
(202.14 KiB) Downloaded 62 times
EFI Calibration SC.jpg
EFI Calibration SC.jpg (55.5 KiB) Viewed 989 times
EFICU
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by EFICU »

Yep, it's definitely a bad sensor. Be sure to get a good O2 sensor and not a cheap one from Amazon or something. Go with an OEM from the dealer, or something like the Bosch 13940 which works well.

While you wait for the sensor to arrive, I would recommend not doing any WOT pulls or anything since we don't knock exactly what the AFR is. Of course if you need to get out of someone's way or something go ahead and do what you need to, but I wouldn't make any fun pulls. It looks like we have some knock going on in my calibration, so if you want to keep driving on mine, datalog some driving you do and send them to me so I can check for part throttle knock. Or, you can put it back to stock until the sensor comes in. Otherwise, we can at least tune the part throttle ignition while you wait for the sensor to show up, and then we can discuss tuning options once the sensor arrives.
RustyDaggers
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Re: New to FlashPro looking for decent basemap

Post by RustyDaggers »

Okay sounds good to me. I will just drive normally and stay away from WOT pulls until I can get the new sensor installed. I typically only order parts from Honda for the car, most the stuff I will get is from a Honda dealer based in Pennsylvania since they usually have good prices and ship fairly quick. The factory O2 would probably be a Denso sensor I would assume, so that's what I'll look for. I sent you a direct E-Mail as well.
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