K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

K-Series Programmable ECU installation questions / support issues
1320k24EK
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

I apologize for the long write-up but I find every little piece of info should be mentioned.

- what vehicle you have
2000 Honda Civic CX (Canadian car if that matters), 06 k24a2 with 04 rsx-s transmission.

- serial number of your K-Pro
05005854

- ECU part number (starts with 37820) and serial number (the number under the part number)
37820-PRB-A06
2068-608426

- KManager version (not 'the latest')
3.3.0

- the calibration (as an attachment)
See below


- a datalog of a problem (as an attachment)
I'm aware of how to post a datalog but unsure of what it should consist of. Currently the car can't be driven, so if a datalog is required it will have to be free-revving.

- anything about the car which has been modified from stock which may affect the ECU (don't include what sort of rims you have nor stereo etc).
Not too sure if any of this will affect the ecu but here we go. The engine harness was purchased used and I was told it was a k20a2 harness. While wiring it up to the engine, it was missing the crank and oil pressure connectors, so from my understanding that would mean it's a JDM k20a harness? No wires were cut, wire loom was still intact. I had to cut the loom to reveal the leads for those sensors. I had the original k24a2 harness so I just cut the connectors off of that harness and wired it to the harness I'm using.
The knock sensor is the orignal from the k24a2, I cut the k20 plug off the harness and wired the correct one for the sensor being used.
I'm using the RBB vtc solenoid with a k20a(2) engine harness.
MAP sensor is mounted on the RRC intake manifold.
Using a Hybrid Racing tb with supplied plugs plugging IACV and MAP sensor ports.
I swapped 25*vtc for 50*vtc and have gone over the timing 3 times to assure timing is bang on.(50*vtc was purchased new from honda)
Hybrid racing 99-00 civic sub-harness

- when and where you got the K-Pro
Bought my swap January of 2013 which the kpro was included. The seller said he bought it new from Teknotik in Scarborough.

- a specific description of the problem
Upon start-up of the car, while revving to 3000rpm for maybe 5 seconds I would get the code p0010 VTC Oil Control Solenoid malfunction. It now doesn't throw a code but while viewing the sensors, cam and camcmd remain at 0. It does move at times but is way off. Camcmd will be at like 18 while cam wont go any higher than 3. It goes nowhere near what it should be following according to the calibration. I've only driven the car 3 times, all being around the block which is maybe 500 meters and everytime the code would pop up again.

I've replaced the vtc solenoid with another RBB solenoid(used), checked and cleaned the vtc strainer on front of head, changed the oil 3 times, last time being 5w30 and since then the cel hasn't came back on. Checked the timing 3 times, everything lines up, oil pressure at idle is ~40psi warm and ~85psi at 3500rpm. I've checked for continuity of the vtc wiring and even ran my own wires from vtc to b1 and b23.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things so if you need anymore info please ask. All and any help is much appreciated.
Thanks!
Attachments
start-up calibration.kal
Engine start up Cal
(149.78 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
Silldro
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:48 am

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by Silldro »

I think it's a problem with the combination of parts you have. You seem to be using a 06 engine with a 06 VTC solenoid but with the earlier wiring harness from the K20A2 and the PRB ecu.

There seems to be two combinations of wiring harness, solenoid and ECU that works.
2002-2005
ECU B1 S+ Pin 1
ECU B23 S- Pin 2
With PNC solenoid and PRB ECU

2005-2006
ECU B1 S+ Pin 1
Pin 2 is grounded
With RBB solenoid and modified PRB ECU
The neg. signal on the 05-06 is run through the engine harness for its ground signal.

It all depends if your ECU is modifyed for the newer cars or not.
If your ECU is modified the easiest option would be to change the wiring (ground pin 2 of the RBB solenoid).
If your ECU isn't modified the easiest option would be to change the solenoid to a PRC and keep the wiring as it is.

I also had problem with the VTC solenoid but my problem seems to be a bad ECU.
http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16851
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Spunkster
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Location: Hondata

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by Spunkster »

Have you tried the ECU in a known working vehicle?
1320k24EK
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

Spunkster wrote:Have you tried the ECU in a known working vehicle?
No I haven't. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone that has a car I could try it in. I've even emailed ppl selling their cars privately if I could try it out but nobody is willing to do so.

What the both of you mentioned is what my plans were to try next. I really do hope that putting a pnc vtc solenoid solves the problem but I'd much rather find out whether its the ecu or not before buying a new solenoid.
1320k24EK
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

Which vehicles will the PRB ECU directly plug into? Is it just the 02-04 RSX base and type S? I'm asking around on a local forum if anyone would be willing to let me try out my ECU in their car. I will also be ordering a PNC VTC solenoid from Honda after Christmas. I will update with the results.

Thanks for the help so far!
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Spunkster
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Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by Spunkster »

It will fit in any manual 02-04 RSX, any 02-05 Civic SI, and any engine swapped K-series using an 02-04 harness. There is no risk to the person letting you plug this in, it will either run properly or will show the same symptoms you have and then you unplug it and put their ECU back and it will run as it always did.
1320k24EK
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

**UPDATE**

Ok, I was able to try my ecu in a 2002 rsx-s. It was a friend of a friend and he was a little hesitant in letting me try it so only he was in the drivers seat. I uploaded the stock k20a2 cal and first it wouldn't start. It would just keep on turning over. He mentioned the immobilizer, so I disabled it and it started right up. Any reasoning for this?

Upon starting it, he gave it a few revs and the camcmd was as high as 30 something while the cam read 0 or -1. I didn't notice the engine light come on as it didn't pop up on kmanager and he didn't mention it til later so I didn't get that in the datalog but it was p0010 again. I think it was after the engine light came on, both camcmd and cam would not move from 0.

So now this is telling me it has to be either the ECU or Kpro, and if it is one or both, to your knowledge is it repairable?

If this datalog isn't good enough, let me know what you would like and I'll ask him to try his car again.
Attachments
rsx types.kdl
(900.07 KiB) Downloaded 68 times
1320k24EK
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

Silldro wrote:I think it's a problem with the combination of parts you have. You seem to be using a 06 engine with a 06 VTC solenoid but with the earlier wiring harness from the K20A2 and the PRB ecu.

There seems to be two combinations of wiring harness, solenoid and ECU that works.
2002-2005
ECU B1 S+ Pin 1
ECU B23 S- Pin 2
With PNC solenoid and PRB ECU

2005-2006
ECU B1 S+ Pin 1
Pin 2 is grounded
With RBB solenoid and modified PRB ECU
The neg. signal on the 05-06 is run through the engine harness for its ground signal.

It all depends if your ECU is modifyed for the newer cars or not.
If your ECU is modified the easiest option would be to change the wiring (ground pin 2 of the RBB solenoid).
If your ECU isn't modified the easiest option would be to change the solenoid to a PRC and keep the wiring as it is.

I also had problem with the VTC solenoid but my problem seems to be a bad ECU.
http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16851

Have you done anything about it yet? How do you know its the ECU and not kpro? I want to know where to go from here.
1320k24EK
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

Any suggestions? If I need a new ECU, do I ask for another PRB? Anything in particular I should look for? Will my kpro simply plug into another PRB ECU without modification besides the USB port?

I noticed on the bottom of the kpro chip that there are 4 places where it connects to the ECU while only 3 are actually plugged into the ECU. Is that correct?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to get it running right so I can get it on the dyno and be done with it.

Thanks!
1320k24EK
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

I've attached another datalog of my k24a2 just revving it a bit in the garage. Speaking to my tuner, he advised I try bending the pins just a tad on b1 and b23. I did so and it didn't make a difference. It would be great if someone would chime in and let me know what to do next. I've been in contact with a few ppl selling prb ECU's but I don't want to firm up until I hear what my options are.
Attachments
K24a2 no cam advance.kdl
(528.96 KiB) Downloaded 73 times
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Spunkster
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Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by Spunkster »

Please open the ECU, take out all the screws and take a picture of the back of the ECU circuit baord (in focus and high quality) and then post the picture here.
1320k24EK
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

Attached are a few pics like you asked. If you need more pics or if the quality isn't good enough, just let me know and I'll go digging for my better camera. Also, the shop that I buy all my parts from offered to lend me an ECU with kpro version 3 so I'll be picking that up saturday and giving it a try. The way I look at it, if it works then it's all good but if it doesn't work then something in the wiring is causing it to screw up the ECU. And of course I'll have to pay for the damaged ECU lol.

Thanks for all your help Spunkster!
Attachments
ecu 005.jpg
ecu 005.jpg (1.89 MiB) Viewed 3810 times
ecu 004.jpg
ecu 004.jpg (2.61 MiB) Viewed 3810 times
ecu 003.jpg
ecu 003.jpg (2.67 MiB) Viewed 3810 times
ecu 001.jpg
ecu 001.jpg (3.12 MiB) Viewed 3810 times
ecu 002.jpg
ecu 002.jpg (1.96 MiB) Viewed 3810 times
1320k24EK
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Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

Woah! I apologize for the huge pics. Didn't think they would show up like that. Sorry!
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Spunkster
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Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by Spunkster »

I prefer large easily viewable pics to blurry and tiny ones.

This K-Pro was not installed by Hondata. It was sold in Aug of 2008 to Innovative Tuning. You may want to contact them about testing this for you after you have tried a working ECU.
1320k24EK
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: K24a2 VTC cam and camcmd read 0

Post by 1320k24EK »

Thank you very much! Did you see anything out of the ordinary? I'll give that shop a shout but I don't expect them to do anything about it. I did buy it used so my own fault.
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