obd0 Pr3 JDM B16A turbo manifold o2 placement question ?

Hondata model coverage & ECU application questions.
Locked
camshaft
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:49 pm
Location: vancouver bc
Contact:

obd0 Pr3 JDM B16A turbo manifold o2 placement question ?

Post by camshaft »

Ok guys what to do ?

The engine comes with 2 o2 sensor A and B and like we all know you can't jump them together or reverse the wires.

How do I wire up my turbo exhaust manifold with 2 oxygen sensors ?
What are my options ?
-2 o2 sensors in the down pipe ?
-upgrade to a OBD1 ecu with one sensor ?

I can't run closed loop operation.

Any input would be great......
thanks guys
Cam

QUICKSILVER RACING
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:45 pm
Location: PHILIPPINES
Contact:

Post by QUICKSILVER RACING »

Same location as the stock one. If I recall it correctly, it's in the #1 and 3 primaries. EQUAL LENGTH MANIFOLD. It's a pain to install.
HONDATA official and sole Distributor in the Philippines.
http://quicksilver.4t.com
+639178954747

camshaft
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:49 pm
Location: vancouver bc
Contact:

pic of the manifold, how do I get 2 o2 sensors

Post by camshaft »

Image

This is very close to my manifold ......
How can I get 2 o2 sensors in it ?

QUICKSILVER RACING
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:45 pm
Location: PHILIPPINES
Contact:

Post by QUICKSILVER RACING »

That is not an equal length manifold. That's more pain than I could imagine. OBDI?
HONDATA official and sole Distributor in the Philippines.
http://quicksilver.4t.com
+639178954747

camshaft
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:49 pm
Location: vancouver bc
Contact:

obd0 Pr3 JDM B16A turbo manifold o2 placement question ?

Post by camshaft »

The engine is a B16A from a 90ish CRX SiR
PR3 ECU OBD0
The turbo kit is a Drag

You can see that no O2 sensor is going into that manifold.
It has to be down stream.......
So do I have to put 2 o2 sensors downstream >?
And does this even work ?

Some one has to have run across this...

Cam

QUICKSILVER RACING
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:45 pm
Location: PHILIPPINES
Contact:

Post by QUICKSILVER RACING »

Yup. A lot of people had come across this and they all had

problems. This has been a topic in the Old Hondata FORUM as well as

many other forums. I wish I could help. But the only solution I could

find is equal length stainless steel manifold with the bung welded just like

the stock one. I'm not even sure i this will work.
HONDATA official and sole Distributor in the Philippines.
http://quicksilver.4t.com
+639178954747

User avatar
Hondata
Site Admin
Posts: 8911
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Torrance, CA
Contact:

PW0/PR3 closed loop

Post by Hondata »

http://www.hondata.com/techo2problem.html

You really only have one choice - run in open loop.
Hondata

camshaft
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:49 pm
Location: vancouver bc
Contact:

open loop isn't going to work for me

Post by camshaft »

Closed loop is all fine but...... all ways that but.....

I need closed loop operation
Unless I can tune it really good

So basicly with a PR3 or PW0 I'm stuck.....

Can I upgrade to a OBD1 ? and use a single o2 sensor in the exhaust ?

thanks
Cam

Any idea's ???

Carchitect
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:14 pm
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Post by Carchitect »

Running an O2 sensor in the manifold would be a big no-no. The heat can easily destroy the zirconia oxide element. The only option for you would be to convert to a OBD1 System. The conversion would require you to run a distributor out of a 92+ vehicle since the crank angle sensor on the 92+ uses 24 teeth and the pre 92 uses 16 teeth. You would also need to run a seperate wire to the O2 sensor heater control. The other wire for the heater you could tie into the BLack/Yellow wire on the distributor for heater power. The Ground for the sensor you can use the green wire on the TPS sensor. The connectors are different totally so I'm not so sure if some one has an adaptor harness for it. The O2 sensor you will need will have to come from any 4 wire honda O2 sensor car as long as it isn't an RSX or the 2001+ civic. You will of course need a OBD1 ECU as well.

Once tuned you shouldn't have trouble passing the snif test. Infact the OBD1 ECU should perform better since the ECU is sensing the cranks movement more accurately and is thus capable of controling the spark and fuel more precisely.
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want
08 IS350 Sport Package, Levinson, Nav, Radar cruise.
94 JZA80 6speed undergoing major weight reduction AKA 911 GT2 killer.
90 DA9 B18C5 retired auto-Xer

camshaft
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:49 pm
Location: vancouver bc
Contact:

Post by camshaft »

Thanks Carchitect

So your profile says your a Acura tech you work at a dealer ?
Thanks for the detailed info...
I would agree that a O2 sensor wouldn't last long in the turbo manifold.

I'm not very happy that the $1000+ ecu upgrade is some what useless.

So if I did upgrade to a OBD1 ECU for a B16a,
I would need a obd1 to obd0 adapter connector
-obd1 distributor
can I just repin the obd1 distributor to use the obd0 connector
and use all the obd0 sensors ?

thanks
cam

Carchitect
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:14 pm
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Post by Carchitect »

I've been working at Honda/Acura dealers for about 7 years. Prior to that I've worked at a private garage for 2.5 years. I specialize on the NSX and Integra . I also mostly deal with drivability problem vehicles. This seems to most people as a challenge and a lot of techs like very much to avoid such vehicles. I don't like to see a vehicle leave my hands unless it runs the way I like for it to.

Inside your distributor are the Top Dead Cylinder sensor, Cam Position Sensor and Crank Angle Sensor. The first has 1 tooth. The second has 4 teeth but the third has 16 teeth for the OBD0 and 24 teeth for the OBD1 & 2 vehicles. If you use the OBD0 dist for the OBD1 ecu the engine will run crappy for about 5-10 seconds, turn on the check engine light and then idle somewhat normal after it realizes that the sensor is giving misleading information to the ECU. The check engine light being on will cause the ECU to run in the limp home mode. This is not the route you want to take on a turbocharged vehicle.
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want
08 IS350 Sport Package, Levinson, Nav, Radar cruise.
94 JZA80 6speed undergoing major weight reduction AKA 911 GT2 killer.
90 DA9 B18C5 retired auto-Xer

camshaft
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:49 pm
Location: vancouver bc
Contact:

Post by camshaft »

Thanks Carchitect.........

I'm a licenced tech as well for about the last 5-6 years. Only problem for me is that it has been at independent garages. So I get to work on Lada's to Porche's.

I knew that obd0 distributors where different to the obd1+ white to grey plug. But not to the extent of the different number of teeth on the crank sensor ring.

What I was trying to get at was plan of attack at the parts I need and install.
So .......
-obd1 ECM and obdo to obd1 converstion harness
-obd1 distributor

What my question was .......
Can I keep my obd0 wiring and just repin the obd1 distributor so that it will connect to my obd0 wiring harness.
As well can I use my obd0 sensors with the obd1 ecu......

Thanks again Carchitect

camshaft
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:49 pm
Location: vancouver bc
Contact:

Post by camshaft »

Hey Carchitect

Sorry to bug you again.....

Code 1 on a 89 Civic with ZC

I have a friend with a problem car it is a 89 Honda Civic DX.
So far it has been converted to multi port injection and has a ZC installed.

It ran fine for about 1- 1/2 years he had some problems with timing marks.....
Lots of techs that have no clue what a ZC engine is and the marks.
HA ha..... you will laugh man..... this poor guy took his car to another friend..... he replaced everything........ distributor, header, throttle body, ecu...... etc etc......
All because he had this hesitation...... I looked at the car for 5 seconds and told him it was missing. Pulled out a plug wire and it had carbon tracking on the end.. Set of wires.... problem all gone.....

This is what I need help with:

Car will set a 02 code after driving for 10-20 minutes. It will come on some times cruise, decel doesn't seem to be consistant

Details
-cam timing is ok
-ignition timing is ok 18degrees
-O2 sensor is new and checked with snapon Vantage
-tps is ok .45 volts still has original rivets....
-fuel pressure is ok, fuel regulator is ok ( has stock regulator and fuel pump)
stock ignition system
-only thing is it has a header with O2 sensor is cylinder 4
-no short to ground on 02 sensor line
-forget the exact resistance from o2 to ecm connector..... .2 of a ohm......
-tried different ECU's still sets code
-what does the ecu look at for setting a o2 code ? is it just no activity after a set period of time ?


thanks
cam
Hey Carchitect drop me a email: cambonius@netzero.net

Locked