FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

FK2 Civic Type R 2015-2017 and FK8 Civic Type R 2017-2018
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pcdangio
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Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:39 pm

FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by pcdangio »

I have a 2017 FK8 with a stock turbo setup and the following mods: intercooler, downpipe, front pipe, intake, flex fuel, and pro tune from IMW.

There is some kind of issue with my electronic wastegate actuator and/or wiring. Every time I cold start, the wastegate actuator stays open and I can't build boost. If I restart the engine, then the wastegate actuator starts behaving normally and I'm able to build full boost as usual. I can restart the engine immediately (like literally after 3 seconds) and it restores normal behavior.

When I cold start the car and the wastegate stays open, I rarely (~1/15 times) get a P2563 in this situation. I only notice the P2563 when it displays the check engine light on the car. If I get the P2563 I can clear it and it doesn't come back for a long time (1-2weeks daily driving). My tuner informed me that with P2563, it forces the wastegate to stay fully open at 8mm. That makes sense as to why I can't build boost when the check engine light is on with P2563. But like I said, in most cases the check engine light is not on after a cold start, and the wastegate is still stuck open.

What really bakes my noodle is that the behavior is exactly repeatable, every time I cold start. It makes it *seem* like it's not a wiring problem.

So I have two primary questions:

1. What EXACTLY is the automatic calibration routine that the wastegate actuator does on each engine start? Does it pull until fully closed to sense the fully closed position? Or does it push fully open until it senses the full open position?

2. Is it at all possible that the ECU is mostly throwing some kind of "silent" and "temporary" P2563 code? Silent meaning it doesn't trigger a check engine light, and temporary meaning it clears itself after a power cycle? If so, that would explain why my actuator is stuck open every cold startup even without a check engine light. It does not, however, explain why everything would start magically working after a restart.

I should also mention that, even though after a restart and I'm able to build full boost (23psi), the turbo just *sounds* different, particularly on spool up. The spool up has a lot more audible woosh to it, and the sound is coming from the turbo side not the intake side. I'm wondering if the wastegate is still acting funky in the mid-band while spooling, but still somehow allowing full boost at top-band.
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Spunkster
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by Spunkster »

Have you followed the factory recommended troubleshooting steps for the error you are getting?
pcdangio
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by pcdangio »

Spunkster wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:54 pm Have you followed the factory recommended troubleshooting steps for the error you are getting?
Where may one find those :)
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Spunkster
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by Spunkster »

You may have to get it form the Honda dealer or subscribe to the Honda Service Express website: https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.aspx
sloth4urluv
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by sloth4urluv »

Since you mentioned the turbo sounding louder how does the fuel trim look under boost?
Sounds like you could possibly have a boost leak (likely on the coupler going to the intercooler)
Does it also feel slower to build boost?

If that was the case I would expect the fuel trims to read rich and the wastegate to be nearly closed when you fully build boost.
If so keep it out of boost until it is fixed as you would be over speeding the turbo and could damage it.

I'm not entirely sure what the programmed conditions are to trigger a P2563, but it seems feasible that a boost leak could possibly trigger it as it would affect the expected relationship between wastegate position and boost control.
pcdangio
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by pcdangio »

Update after some more investigation:

On a cold start, the car is always throwing P2563 on startup. It is somehow "silently" throwing this code the majority of the time, meaning that I can see the code in flashpro, but it's not triggering a check engine light or any other indicator on the dashboard. Every once and a while the P2563 will trigger the check engine light on the dash. Really weird... anybody know why that would happen? I've seen similar behavior in the past with misfire codes not setting the check engine light.

So on initial cold start, with P2563 always being set, the ecu locks the WG at full open (8mm) and I can't build boost.

When I restart the engine, if the P2563 was "silent" beforehand, it goes away (doesn't show up in flashpro), and WG goes back to "mostly" normal operation. If the P2563 had set the check engine light on the dash beforehand, it would persist no matter how many engine restarts until I manually cleared the code.

BTW: Flashpro description of P2563 is "Turbocharger wastegate control actuator position sensor out of range"

I'm going to buy short-term access to the service manuals that spunkster shared to see if they shed any more light on what the problem is.
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Spunkster
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by Spunkster »

More than likely there is a leak somewhere that you have made changes to. But it is still best to follow the trouble shooting steps for the specific error codes you are getting.
Neotek321
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by Neotek321 »

Any further information on this? I have the very same thing happening with passive code P2563, hard to find info specific to the type R on this, sensor location etc.
Neotek321
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by Neotek321 »

***updated*** the issue is the electronic waste gate Actuator, had the same code and replaced mine. After already replacing other sensors, No more code or issue. Honda does not sell the waste gate separate from the turbo, so you will need to order the waste gate from a 3rd party vendor if you don’t want to pay $14000. Also heads up the gas relay switch on these cars is a crap and goes out quick, but does not throw a code either just reduces performance up top. Found and replaced mine during the trouble shooting of the P2563 error.
Irish-R
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Re: FK8 wastegate only working after restarting engine

Post by Irish-R »

I was recently driving my car (2017 Civic Type R) when it just suddenly lost power while driving down the freeway. At 80mph in 6th gear it would just barely accelerate under full throttle. I pulled over and restarted the car and it seemed to go back to normal. Several days later it threw the P2563 code and said I had an emissions problem and Rev matching was disabled.

What I have found is that now when I want to drive the car I have to do the following process:

1. start the car and I let it run long enough for all the components to initialize (all the systems on the dash and the entertainment system to be on the safe side; about 5-10 seconds)
2. turn the car back off and wait for everything to power down (type R emblem disappears from the dash display)
3. start the car again.

If I don't do this the car makes almost no power as if it is not making boost. And the car will throw the 2563 code again. (Now it is throwing the code even when I do this procedure sometimes.)

**Note: I believe that anytime your CTR throws a code it will disable the rev-matching and possibly other features because the car is in limp-home mode...

So my question is what is causing this? The P2563 code states "Turbocharger Boost Control Position Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance" Is this actually a sensor error or is it a physical problem with the wastegate valve or something of that nature???

UPDATE: I had my wife start the car, doing the process listed above and saw what was happening. The wastegate actuator cycles at startup but does not return to fully closed (I'm assuming) on the initial cold start. As soon as I restart the engine the valve cycles completely. I have enclosed a picture of it doing this... I have a video but it is too big for the forum. You can see the video at https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/tu ... st-1171476
Electronic Wastegate.jpg
Electronic Wastegate.jpg (1019.86 KiB) Viewed 112 times

Is this similar to what you experienced and is this the part that you had replaced? Has anyone had a dealer fix this yet? My local dealership has burned me on repairs and I can't even trust them to properly secure the underbody panels.. Please help!
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