1000cc injectors controlled by hondata

Hondata installation questions / answers / issues.
Locked
DIRep972
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:21 am

1000cc injectors controlled by hondata

Post by DIRep972 » Mon May 24, 2004 12:59 pm

Who here has been able to get there car to idle below 1000rpm, w/ a near solid 14.7:1 a/f ratio on 1000cc or larger injectors?

User avatar
Spunkster
Site Admin
Posts: 18086
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Hondata
Contact:

Post by Spunkster » Tue May 25, 2004 10:00 am

Your car may not want to idle properly at 14.7...try different mistures from 13.5 to 15.5 for the idle.

DIRep972
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:21 am

Post by DIRep972 » Tue May 25, 2004 12:15 pm

Ive seen 1000's done @ about 900rpm w/ a 13:1 ish a/f.. Ran pretty smooth.. but I want to try to do better.

to idle your 1000's, did you add any igintion timing?

RMS
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:35 am
Location: Visalia, CA

Post by RMS » Wed May 26, 2004 10:27 pm

we tuned the idle on 96# rochesters last week. with the ecu in open loop the engine idled very smoothly at 850rpm with 16 degrees of timing.
RaVer Motorsports (559) 733-4711
ravermotorsports@earthlink.net

thudreem
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:24 pm
Contact:

Post by thudreem » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:20 pm

I have 1000cc injectors and have a great idle at 900rpm with 20 degrees of timing.

DaX
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:48 pm

Post by DaX » Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:59 am

JW...what is the conversion factor for lbs/hr to cc/min?

RMS
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:35 am
Location: Visalia, CA

Post by RMS » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:03 pm

10.5 X #s/hr = cc/min
RaVer Motorsports (559) 733-4711
ravermotorsports@earthlink.net

turbo_civic_si
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:06 pm

Post by turbo_civic_si » Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:47 pm

i have the 96# rochesters also and am around 1-.9 lambda with 17* at an idle speed of 850. i advanced the iac valve some and have ect set to 1. on a cold start, it idles very rich and if i lower the ect, car will idle a little leaner, but then have problems after car is warmed up, idles starts surging b/c it is running very lean. my usb port on my laptop is messed, so i can't do real time and datalog at the same time, so really haven't put alot of time in trying to fix it.

thudreem
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:24 pm
Contact:

Post by thudreem » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:04 am

I have the same problem with the 1000cc injectors when the car is cold I have to change the ect value to .70 and then when the cars warms up I have to change it back to 1 otherwise the car will be very lean and start surging. Does anybody have a solution to this problem?? Its anoying to change the ect value from cold to warm conditions.

DIRep972
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:21 am

Post by DIRep972 » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:34 am

are you guys trying to get it to idle @ stoichiometric on the cold starts? If so, your not supposed too. You should idle very rich on cold starts because the fuel doesn't atomize very well.

turbo_civic_si
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:06 pm

Post by turbo_civic_si » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:18 pm

i'm not trying to run it at stoich on a cold start. on a cold start it runs around .6-.7 lambda. if i lower the ect value, it tends to lean out some and becomes a little bit more drivable (.85-.75), but it affects the whole map, leaning it out also and when warm it tends to run lean and surge at idle, so the value of ect must be rather high and it gets rid of the surge, but then your left with a very rich cold start.

i've managed to get it around 1.2-1 lambda (warmed up), but it slightly surges and that is on a hot day with intake temps around 100+. i think i have to richen up a few fuel values a little higher up in the rpm so it could help stabilize it some. see what happens...

fox30
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:34 am
Location: MA
Contact:

Post by fox30 » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:03 pm

This is when your in open loop? The ecu (in open loop with narrowband o2) should try to calibrate it automatically under 750 mbar right or am i wrong?
96 GSR / B18C1 Built / AEBS T-Sleeves /~~/
No stickers / no nice rims / 10.4 seconds
other hobbies: PC gaming, Half-Life, Linux Administration, MotocrossKX250, kissing big tities

Carchitect
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:14 pm
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Post by Carchitect » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:14 pm

Once you get over 600 cc you really NEED a good spray pattern to get the fuel to atomize right for proper idle and good driveability. I just recently tuned a turbocharged type-R w/1000 cc injectors. Idle is at 1000 primarily since this car has a lot of stereo equipment in it and I didn't want the lights to dimm as much. AFR is steady at 14.7 and is tuned with a Motec PLM on an NTK UEGO rather than the Bosch wideband. If you are going to run this much fuel its very apparent that a lot of power is desired. I made about 425 whp on a stock block B18C5 using a thicker head gasket and stuff that would take me forever to list. We ran 93 octane and even hit 1.8 bar! Engine still holds today thanks to Hondata. 2.0 bar doesn't seem like a problem either. We are running only 65% duty cycle currently. Once we pass the limit on the stock map sensor the ECU will have the remaining portion tuned on RPM so if we hit past 2.0 bar and the GM sensor maxes out the ecu will still deliver the right amount of fuel and proper ignition timing.

Things to consider about injectors:
1: what is the rise time ? (delay from the time the ecu commands the injector to open vs. pintle open)
2: what is the fall time ? (same as above but how it shut off)
3: is this also consistent throughout the entire rev range ?
4: what about the time when the fuel pressure changes how will its consistency be affected ?
5: what about the temperature change ? will the injector's temperature or fuel temperature change the consistency ?
6: will it come with the flow data for each one of the injectors ?
7: what type of warranty comes with it ?
8: will it close completely or would it trickle when it shuts off?
9: what about bleed down ? a large injector leaking could fowl out a cylinder very quick.
10: Is its spray pattern designed for my application or is it just universal ?

I'll stop here but you get the general idea why the performance of an injector is so crutial. When Honda orders injectors f
rom whoever make it for them, they get inspected at both factories. I know that Honda pulls every 100th injector and inspects the spray pattern and flow. If for any reason the injector were to fail or perform undesirably the other cylinders will be affected as well since the o2 sensor measures all ports. Not only that but the O2 sensor is a very important feed back monitor used to compensate for the fuel trim on a speed density car. If you were to have fuel puddling in the cylinder it will slow down the burn rate. This will destroy idle stability since the burn may still continue into the exhaust and even remain in the valve reliefs of the piston until the next intake stroke. Also incomplete burn will cause the fuel and oxygen rich fuel to continue into the exhaust and the combustion will need to take place not in the catalyst while damaging it. The o2 sensor during this time will also monitor a lean reading since it works off oxygen content and further add additional fuel instead.

I choose RC engineering for my injectors since the dependability is not just important, its crutial. There are a lot of factors that can make tuning a nightmare nowadays. Adjusting a cam, a sensor, monitoring temp readings of a sensor, listening and monitoring engine knock, inspect vital fluid levels conditions, etc... If I can just spend money in one area and have it maintain its consistency just in tuning its worth it. At least I know with RC injectors I can have that peace of mind and I buy then right here from Hondata.

Joe.
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want
08 IS350 Sport Package, Levinson, Nav, Radar cruise.
94 JZA80 6speed undergoing major weight reduction AKA 911 GT2 killer.
90 DA9 B18C5 retired auto-Xer

Locked