ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

s300 and SManager software questions & answers
Hermanmax88
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ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:59 pm

I have recently installed injector dynamics 1050x injectors into my all motor b series. With a little bit of tweaking of the dead times from injector dynamics website i was able to tune them very easily except for my idle. My idle is smooth at high 13-14:1 afr but when i pull fuel to get it to idle at 14.7 it becomes very rough and stuttering. I dont know if it is the dead times or the stock injector/current injector (fuel multiplier) pulling so much fuel that the injector is operating at too small of a pulse-width. I currently have it set at stock injector-240cc, current injector-1065cc as it states on ID’s website for 43.5 psi base pressure. What would happen if i set the current injector size to something lower like 800cc. Obviously it would take out less fuel from the whole table but would it be so much that I wouldn’t be able to make up for it by taking fuel out where i need to? When I increase dead times it obviously gets richer but when i pull fuel to get it back to 14.7 idle it is even rougher with the higher dead times. The dead times i am using with base pressure at 45psi are 12v-1.05, 14v-.84, 16v-.79

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Hondata
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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hondata » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:17 am

The dead times you need are much higher than those listed on the ID web site. The dead time at 14V should be 1.2ms / 1200 us. You'll need to re-tune low load to get the AFR right.
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Hermanmax88
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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:00 am

Thank you for your reply. Why is the required dead time so much higher than what Injector dynamics says. I guess i am a little confused. Also what about the stock injector/current injector setting. Does that have to be exactly 1000cc, or 1050. Im not sure I understand exactly what that does, isnt it just a fuel multiplier?

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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hondata » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:44 pm

With IDs the stated dead time is less than the stock dead time. It could be that they are measured in a different way, but the bottom line is that the dead times need to be around 1.2ms @ 14V to work. I suggest scaling their dead times until you get 1.18ms @ 14V. Then re-tune any areas where the AFR is wrong. As for the injector size, 1065cc/min should work.
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Hermanmax88
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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:58 pm

Hondata wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:44 pm
With IDs the stated dead time is less than the stock dead time. It could be that they are measured in a different way, but the bottom line is that the dead times need to be around 1.2ms @ 14V to work. I suggest scaling their dead times until you get 1.18ms @ 14V. Then re-tune any areas where the AFR is wrong. As for the injector size, 1065cc/min should work.
Just for clarification. When you say scale the dead times until i get 1.38ms. Do you mean increase/deacrease the dead times until my injector is running at 1.38ms? Or set the dead time to 1.38ms? Sorry, i am certainly new at this, unfortunately not many people are willing to share info or teach so i am forced to learn by trial and Error. This forum has been a huge help so far so thank you

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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:29 pm

Hondata wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:44 pm
With IDs the stated dead time is less than the stock dead time. It could be that they are measured in a different way, but the bottom line is that the dead times need to be around 1.2ms @ 14V to work. I suggest scaling their dead times until you get 1.18ms @ 14V. Then re-tune any areas where the AFR is wrong. As for the injector size, 1065cc/min should work.
That didn’t work at all. Set dead times so injectors were running at 1.38ms. Idle went to 12:1 afr, pulled fuel to get back to 14.7:1 and inj ms fell back down to1.22-1.25. Maybe these injectors just cant run that low? Are these injectors even supposed to be able to run a stoich idle?

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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hondata » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:26 am

No, you need to scale the injector dead times so that they are around 1.2ms @ 14V. eg
0.00 8.09 10.11 12.13 14.16 16.08 24.55
2.19 2.19 1.66 1.38 1.20 1.05 1.05
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Hermanmax88
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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:39 pm

Hondata wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:26 am
No, you need to scale the injector dead times so that they are around 1.2ms @ 14V. eg
0.00 8.09 10.11 12.13 14.16 16.08 24.55
2.19 2.19 1.66 1.38 1.20 1.05 1.05
These dead times put my idle at 10:1 afr. Pulled massive amounts of fuel, literally pulled about 400% and it only brought me to a 13:1 afr. Still way too rich. These dead times are way too high. I have ID1050x injectors, not id1000’s

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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hondata » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:06 pm

Ok, then if your fuel tables are fairly smooth then decease the dead times until you idle / low load and medium load are all about the same. If they don't get the same AFR then you'll need to scale the fuel table. By my reckoning the 1050x should still be about 1.12 ms @ 14V.
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Hermanmax88
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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:21 pm

Could it be that i am expecting too low of an idle? My min idle is at 850rpm. It idles a perfect 14.7 afr at 1000rpm, but once it goes down to 850 rpm thats when it starts stuttering unless its rich. Maybe these injectors were not meant to operate so low? My fuel pressure is at 45 psi base pressure. I dont need the full 1000cc/min so i set the pressure low thinking id have an easier time getting consistent afr’s. Could it be that the fuel pressure is too low?

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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Spunkster » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:45 pm

Larger injectors have a difficult time idling at lower speeds. If it idles better at higher RPM, then you might want to consider just letting it idle at that higher RPM. It will also smooth out vibration a little more.

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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:34 pm

Thank you for your help and patience. One last issue i am having with the dead times is my fuel over run cutoff is going really rich, like 11.5:1 before cutoff. I read one of your posts in another thread about reducing dead times until afr is flat until cutoff. Is there any other way to fix the rich cutoff since my dead times are already really low. I feel like if I understood why dead times have an effect on fuel cutoff afr i might have an easier time figuring it out

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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Spunkster » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:31 am

different injectors have different amounts of time it takes for the injector to respond once voltage is applied, this is the dead time and it varies with the amount of voltage applied. This will effect when fuel begins spraying and when it stops spraying. This is also dependent on pressures that the fuel is at.

Hermanmax88
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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:18 pm

So a high dead time will briefly cause rich afr before cutoff because the injector is being cut too late? So if i reduce dead time it will fire the injector sooner and also cut the injector sooner than a higher dead time?

Hermanmax88
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Re: ID1050x dead times or fuel multiplier

Post by Hermanmax88 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:35 pm

So i put my s300 in a different ecu and loaded the same exact calibration on it. The problem immediately went away. So obviously the problem is my ecu. What could be the cause? Any tips on where to begin troubleshooting the hardware for this?

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