Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

s300 and SManager software questions & answers
forevertrj
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:13 pm
Location: Victoria BC
Contact:

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by forevertrj »

here is a copy of my calibration, it could be in either closed or open loop, but everything else is the same. the data logs when the RPM and MAP sensor get wavy is when it's in open loop and when they go solid or nearly flat I updated the ecu to closed loop. I also erased the ECU and uploaded this map from scratch and did another closed to open loop to closed loop test and the results were the same, I'll cut the wideband wire later and see if this fluctuation occurs again. I'm using the New calibration B16aGreddyTurbo baseline map with my injector size/deadtimes, and a 4bar map sensor, I also got this fluctuation results from my stock map sensor. and I calculated the scalar for this 4 BAR map sensor using a vacuum pump gauge and the barometric sensor reading from the ecu to do the math.
Attachments
B16ATurbo_4BarMAP_v1.0.skl
(41.6 KiB) Downloaded 147 times
ClosedToOpenToClosed.s3d
(1.45 MiB) Downloaded 167 times
startupInOpenLoopChangeToClosed.s3d
(863.89 KiB) Downloaded 160 times
eraseECUClosedToOpenToClosed.s3d
(1.4 MiB) Downloaded 155 times
Let's not make assumptions, please leave as much detail as possible!
forevertrj
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:13 pm
Location: Victoria BC
Contact:

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by forevertrj »

BACK FROM THE DEAD! problem solved! This may be an issue for me only though so don't get your hopes up. This is a solution if someone is having an issue where your car will start and run for about 4-5 minutes or until warmish, then won't start no matter what you try. Today I was poking around in my pinouts, removed my wideband from the D10 plug to see if she would run! Fired it up closed loop on the stock O2 sensor. after a bit I wanted to try open loop again, as soon as I did it worked for 30 seconds then died. what the F! i mean come on! turns out after taking the ECU out of the case and putting it back in I didn't tighten the brass bracket for the transistor or mosfet at the back of the case near the plugs, see picture! whatever this is controlling just right shit the bed when trying to run the car. As soon as I bolted the brass bracket down and it cooled off I've had no further issues!
Attachments
P06-CHIPPED-ECU-2T.png
P06-CHIPPED-ECU-2T.png (293.72 KiB) Viewed 4388 times
Let's not make assumptions, please leave as much detail as possible!
simjosh
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:08 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by simjosh »

Hey,,, I'll check it out... but I've been running my car in closed loop for over a year without any hiccups.. It starts cold in open loop but as long as the closed loop function is selected in Hondata... it runs fine..

It's the Hondata board or the ECU. No other way around that. I'll check that screw but I've never had my board out of the casing..

Tried a month back or so switching the car to open loop through the software and it would run like shit again. So it's definitely got something to do with the open / closed loop functions in the software. What ever is sent or received by making this change creates a vehicle that is un-tune-able / drive-able.

Again... Car has driven GREAT when in closed loop... I tune in Closed loop and it works as expected... + / - fuel will make AFR go up or down as expected.. All functions work perfectly.

When warming up in closed loop... the car starts in OL and transitions once X degree's ECT to closed loop... This open loop time works great..
***IF before cold start the programs altered to open loop tuning.. Nothing responds correctly. It's VERY annoying but setting short / long term trims to 0 gets you around this..

I'll check that screw and see if it affects anything though... Glad you got your car / system running correctly!
forevertrj
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:13 pm
Location: Victoria BC
Contact:

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by forevertrj »

also I started tuning the car from the start in open loop, if you've started tuning from scratch in closed loop, the injector dead times could be off, or the fuel table could be way off, have you started a new calibration from open loop, and adjusted the dead times until your car starts and runs rich then back it off until it gets to 14.7 after being warm.
Let's not make assumptions, please leave as much detail as possible!
simjosh
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:08 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by simjosh »

forevertrj wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:24 pm also I started tuning the car from the start in open loop, if you've started tuning from scratch in closed loop, the injector dead times could be off, or the fuel table could be way off, have you started a new calibration from open loop, and adjusted the dead times until your car starts and runs rich then back it off until it gets to 14.7 after being warm.
Gahhh... Yes, did you check out the calibration and data log files? You'd understand the challenge... The vehicle when started in open loop even from a fresh cal - afr swings from 19 - 11.... There's no tuning dead times, ignition or fuel cells that'll keep this from happening... It'll swing that dramatically no matter what you enter into the fields..

Yet if you enable closed loop (zero out short term long term fuel) it'll tune as expected. Also if I cut the o2 sensor wire connected to the ecu it'll work perfectly fine in open loop.. Tunes correctly. Can't remember if that was mentioned in earlier posts but I believe it was..

So, the result from manually enabling open loop will through afr out of wack. If left in closed loop with etc target temp of 170. Car starts OL and tunes correctly then automatically switches to CL and continues to work "correctly"

I've found a perfectly acceptable work around. It was just annoying when you first spend 600+ to get away from crome for something that will work without the bugs and or drama...

Thanks though!
ssjr0498
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:41 pm

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by ssjr0498 »

Reviving an old thread! I am having the exact same problem on my hondata s300v2. What was the acceptable workaround? If it's ok, can you share it!

Oh and yeah, I too switched from neptune to hondata and I'm stuck with this issue!

Cheers!
simjosh wrote: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:53 am

I've found a perfectly acceptable work around. It was just annoying when you first spend 600+ to get away from crome for something that will work without the bugs and or drama...

Thanks though!
simjosh
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:08 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by simjosh »

ssjr0498 wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:39 am Reviving an old thread! I am having the exact same problem on my hondata s300v2. What was the acceptable workaround? If it's ok, can you share it!

Oh and yeah, I too switched from neptune to hondata and I'm stuck with this issue!

Cheers!
simjosh wrote: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:53 am

I've found a perfectly acceptable work around. It was just annoying when you first spend 600+ to get away from crome for something that will work without the bugs and or drama...

Thanks though!


Set fuel trims in closed loop to zero... Long and short trim both...

Then you been actually tune the software and afterwards, add back whatever trim you are comfortable with... ...
stephancrxboosted1
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:42 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by stephancrxboosted1 »

I also got this problem ,i can tune in closed loop and it works fine,only after i did a pull and stop for traffic lights than idle fluctuates for a 60 sec orso and sometimes stalls and when i try to restart the car it wont run until i wait a few minutes then it runs perfect again and that is very fucked .I think it is not normal but some people here say that its the combination off parts and its tuning related..so i,m stock with some half working shit.
crluver123
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:13 pm

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by crluver123 »

stephancrxboosted1 wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:08 pm I also got this problem ,i can tune in closed loop and it works fine,only after i did a pull and stop for traffic lights than idle fluctuates for a 60 sec orso and sometimes stalls and when i try to restart the car it wont run until i wait a few minutes then it runs perfect again and that is very fucked .I think it is not normal but some people here say that its the combination off parts and its tuning related..so i,m stock with some half working shit.
that's not the same problem as what's being discussed in this thread. Your problem is just a bad tune.
stephancrxboosted1
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:42 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by stephancrxboosted1 »

ok so you say it is normal that i can only tune in closed loop and that the af ratio in open loop from 8.50 to 18.00 go up and down in 2 seconds and with a lot of throttle can just keep running, and whatever I do in the tables has no effect at all and in closed loop with st and lt on 0 the tuning works and it also drives fine except for a number of things. now I suddenly have another new glich because he now has at 4000 rpm a revlimit while it is set to 9000. then sometimes when I have changed something in the fueltable and it uploads then it suddenly starts sputtering and stuttering and I can only just keep it running and then switch a few times from closed loop to openloop and suddenly it is gone and it works normally again in closed loop. my psp and vtp are also always on so I can't use them. my car has become very unreliable since the hondata s300 and I also stopped a few times in front of traffic lights because it suddenly turns off and does nothing anymore. I bought it so I have to do it. I have never stood still for the hondata in 13 years and always drive turbo only then obd0 pw0. And also the datalog, which also works with a lot of glitches.
KonstantinB18eg
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:25 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by KonstantinB18eg »

same like samjosh over here... i runed hondata with wideband since years on my N/A b18c4 with no problems at all. everything worked fine at tuning

few weeks ago i boosted the engine, and the only electrical things i had to change were the injectors. i changed from 240cc obd2 keihin plug to bosch ev14 with ev1 plug 640cc @ 4bar fp deadtimes also set for 4bar... as the engine was N/A i also already ran 4 bar fp... so the problem only can come from the injectors, since they are just fine like the engine and everything else to i think it could only be the dead times...

maybe the problem is that i set dt at 0v same as 8v and same deat time at 24v like at 18v? maybe this can cause this problem? i dont know really... everything else on my setup just works fine but im for now since boosted unable to tune in openloop. and it couldnt be the solution that i always have to set strim and ltrim to zero for tuning😪🤔
Attachments
Screenshot_20220620-204751_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20220620-204751_Gallery.jpg (1.16 MiB) Viewed 2482 times
Screenshot_20220620-204523_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20220620-204523_Gallery.jpg (931.31 KiB) Viewed 2482 times
Screenshot_20220620-204457_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20220620-204457_Gallery.jpg (1.64 MiB) Viewed 2482 times
KonstantinB18eg
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:25 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by KonstantinB18eg »

so today i tried few different things at idle....

i set all fuel numbers to 100 at idle, to test if my fuel table is the problem what i dont think so.. nothing get better if i switch to open loop...

next try i set the current injector size from 640 @4bar which i run
to the base size from the injectors 560cc without changing the deadtimes.. the engine runs richer in closed loop like around 13.2afr instead of 14.7afr so thats also not the problem...

next try i let the car idle at closed loop but with 0% in change for s.trim and l.trim, the car still runs fine at 14.7... but it shouldnt run fine cause 0% in change is like open loop

next try i try to set the dead times at 12v 14v and 16v 0.05ms higher or lower and go to open loop, thats also not a good idea cause afr also jumping around in ol like before + it gets way leaner or richer at cl instead of stay still at 14.7 so the deadtimes for this injectors are just fine too...

next try i adjusted 30% more fuel in part throttle till 757mbar cause maybe is the duty cycle way to low to run good in open loop. nothing changes the start of jumping began a little bit slower but at starting in openloop with 30%more the engine ran 12.00afr at idle thats also no good option...

at the end of the day.. i have no other ideas, but like simjosh said for tuning part throttle i have to set cl correction everywhere to 0% instead of switching to open loop...

tomorrow a friend will check all of that stuff maybe he has an idea... i will report this the next days✌
KonstantinB18eg
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:25 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by KonstantinB18eg »

i think yesterday testing with a friend, we found the problem...
its not about how high or low the fuel table at idle is.. its the curve itself that i have to change at idle...
its the same curve which i used for my n/a before and it was fine...
it used at idle 900rpm in second mbar row numbers like 65 and in third row number like 125 with that numbers afr was jumping... as i set all 4 numbers to 110 it stops jumping but was at 12.6afr so i changed all numbers around at idle to fit to that 110...
but if you start to reduce numbers to go to 14.7 the engine slowly starts to jumping in afr again....

soo i think its really the low dutycycle with bigger injectors which makes the idle responding really sensitive and the fuelcurve at idle which i really has to change and tune to fit to that injectors... but 12.5afr would be better than jumping around... but i will try to tune idle so long till i got my 14.7 but it will take a long time🙈 cause the injectors are really sensitive at idle...

so its not about how high or low you set your old or standard hondata fuelcurve at idle to new injectors its the curve itself which has to be changed at idle for bigger injectors
stephancrxboosted1
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:42 am

Re: Unable to tune in open loop but works fine closed loop....

Post by stephancrxboosted1 »

Ok i gonna try that to,im converting my crx to all wheel drive at the moment so its gonna wait till im finished with the awd
Post Reply